SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

Wasn't the yellow TRD FR-S put into B-Street on the sole reason because it has bigger sway bars and springs on it?
I can't imagine these are going to fly in CS.

Port installed is legal. You're right, this car goes straight to BS once this gets figured out, but if true this is street class legal.

[simpleisbest]

I believe the RS 1.0 was put into B-Street in efforts to keep it from being an overdog unicorn in C-Street. I highly doubt it was due to it's speed on course. It was more a move to kill "performance package" trims (like S2000 CR, etc).

If these parts are available to all FR-S's then, it would be logical to bring the RS 1.0 back to the same grouping as the standard FR-S.

As for a class bump, that is out of our control. If they do bump the car, it would doubtful it could compete in B-Street even with the TRD performance parts.

What is interesting is how a TRD equipped FR-S would compare to the upcoming ND MX-5, which has been rumored to land in C-Street. It is quite possible that no change will occur until the performance level of the ND has been assessed.

Remember, while the TRD package is stiffer than normal, it is still within OEM acceptable levels. While TRD has not published the rates, I doubt we are looking at STX level rates here....

Regardless, this will likely turn into a headache for the SAC. It is unlikely that they will kick out the most popular of the only 3 "can-purchased-as-new" cars in CS.

Did they reclass the Corvettes for Z51/non-Z51 packages? No. Every Stock/Street Corvette has the Z51 package (either from factory or converted later). Its a factory option. Port options are factory options for imported cars. Plus, the TRD parts are inexpensive!

If they were to ban port option all together, then it would make create a huge rule bias toward domestic cars and potentially alienate huge sponsors such as Toyota and Mini. Not sure if that would be what they want.

[AustinTX]

If it's true, wanna buy a BRZ?

[renfield90]

Look what happened to the 370Z. It was only a little bit faster, but out it went. Right now you can win CS with an RX8, a Miata, a BRZ, or an FRS - it's fairly balanced. If we get stiffer springs that balance goes away. Note that the BRZ technically can't run these TRD parts either.

Your average hot FRS will be a base model with springs/swaybars swapped. It's the MSR/Z0K situation all over again and it's not a good look for street class. Nobody will like this situation except for the FRS owners taking trophies and a jacket at nats. The SAC has made it very clear what the solution is for headaches like this.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by AustinTX

If it's true, wanna buy a BRZ?

Classing changes outside of the 12-month window must follow the formal rules process. The earliest they can boot us out is next year. I may be interested in a BRZ after nats though.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Look what happened to the 370Z. It was only a little bit faster, but out it went. Right now you can win CS with an RX8, a Miata, a BRZ, or an FRS - it's fairly balanced. If we get stiffer springs that balance goes away. Note that the BRZ technically can't run these TRD parts either.

Your average hot FRS will be a base model with springs/swaybars swapped. It's the MSR/Z0K situation all over again and it's not a good look for street class. Nobody will like this situation except for the FRS owners taking trophies and a jacket at nats. The SAC has made it very clear what the solution is for headaches like this.

You really think Stock/Street classing is about balance?
Look at F-Street and put yourself into the shoes of a 335i (used to be D-Stock) owner. You think the class is about balance? Nothing but best of breed there. Why should C-Street be any different?

[DaWorstPlaya]

Hate to burst the buble but that won't fly. If you put the TRD springs/sways on the car, it moves to STX. Because:

Dealer-installed options or deletions (except as required
by factory directives), no matter how common or what their origin, are not
included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or
backdating of parts.

Pretty sure the springs and sway bars are considered dealer installed parts.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

You really think Stock/Street classing is about balance?
Look at F-Street and put yourself into the shoes of a 335i (used to be D-Stock) owner. You think the class is about balance? Nothing but best of breed there. Why should C-Street be any different?

Yes, I do. The SAC is very committed to not upsetting the applecart right now. We are essentially going to roll the applecart off the cliff and into the ocean. You really think they're gonna swallow that, or that the other drivers in CS aren't gonna write a hundred letters?

Not saying we shouldn't take this genie out of the bottle and run with it while we can, that's racing. I'm going to a dealership tomorrow to try and get answers and/or documentation.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya

Hate to burst the buble but that won't fly. If you put the TRD springs/sways on the car, it moves to STX. Because:

Dealer-installed options or deletions (except as required
by factory directives), no matter how common or what their origin, are not
included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or
backdating of parts.

Pretty sure the springs and sway bars are considered dealer installed parts.

If there is documentation of them as port-installed line item options, they are legal for street class.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya

Hate to burst the buble but that won't fly. If you put the TRD springs/sways on the car, it moves to STX. Because:

Dealer-installed options or deletions (except as required
by factory directives), no matter how common or what their origin, are not
included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or
backdating of parts.

Pretty sure the springs and sway bars are considered dealer installed parts.

Read the rule book. Look up port options in the description of standard part (Sec 12).

As long as the PN was available as a port option, it doesn't matter who installed it. Port Option = Factory Option = Standard Part.

[chucky12012]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Read the rule book. Look up port options in the description of standard part (Sec 12).

As long as the PN was available as a port option, it doesn't matter who installed it. Port Option = Factory Option = Standard Part.

I don't even see these as options to build the FR-S, including the 2015, but maybe I don't know how to use the website. I'm not aware of Scion having any port options, they have always just been dealer installed options. I can't seem to find anything contrary to this, so as far as I can tell it's no different than any other TRD part.

It seems to me that if you want those two parts, the only option to run street is to put the full 1.0 package on the car and run BS.

I'm more interested in getting faster within the current rules and winning that way instead of trying to find a loophole, but more power to you I suppose...

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by chucky12012

I don't even see these as options to build the FR-S, including the 2015, but maybe I don't know how to use the website. I'm not aware of Scion having any port options, they have always just been dealer installed options. I can't seem to find anything contrary to this, so as far as I can tell it's no different than any other TRD part.

It seems to me that if you want those two parts, the only option to run street is to put the full 1.0 package on the car and run BS.

I'm more interested in getting faster within the current rules and winning that way instead of trying to find a loophole, but more power to you I suppose...

Yeah, with regards to the website just go build yourself a FR-S and read the descriptions about MSRP. If you still can't figure it contact your local Scion dealer and ask, or go webchat on the Scion website with their customer service and ask.

There are easy ways for you to get yourself up to speed.

What loophole? This is all by the current rulebook. Port options are used by many popular cars in Street/Stock, and would even be valid for Solo rules from many years past? Like I said, read the rule book and educate yourself on what's out there.

If you want to leave legal prep on the table its on you, pal.

Also, if I was just doing this for myself, I wouldn't have posted the info at all.

[chucky12012]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Yeah, with regards to the website just go build yourself a FR-S and read the descriptions about MSRP. If you still can't figure it contact your local Scion dealer and ask, or go webchat on the Scion website with their customer service and ask.

There are easy ways for you to get yourself up to speed.

What loophole? This is all by the current rulebook. Port options are used by many popular cars in Street/Stock, and would even be valid for Solo rules from many years past? Like I said, read the rule book and educate yourself on what's out there.

If you want to leave legal prep on the table its on you, pal.

Also, if I was just doing this for myself, I wouldn't have posted the info at all.

Like I said, I see nothing with regard to the TRD springs or sways on the FR-S build page. Maybe you could provide a screenshot or something showing what you are referring to? I only see them listed under accessories along with all of the other dealer installed accessories like the attached image. The MSRP language for the TRD springs refers to it as a dealer installed option. I just don't see how you would consider this legal prep and you've provided nothing to even support your statements. If you can show that backup, then great.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by chucky12012

Like I said, I see nothing with regard to the TRD springs or sways on the FR-S build page. Maybe you could provide a screenshot or something showing what you are referring to? I only see them listed under accessories along with all of the other dealer installed accessories like the attached image. The MSRP language for the TRD springs refers to it as a dealer installed option. I just don't see how you would consider this legal prep and you've provided nothing to even support your statements. If you can show that backup, then great.

The first sentence of the description. It says, "MSRP excludes tax." The second sentence defines the listed MSRP as installed by the manufacturer. This generally means port option.

Put your mouse over the brake pads. It will say, "MSRP excludes tax and installation." This means the listed price does NOT include install, thus it is a dealer option.

You do not pay separate installation charges for port options. You generally pay installation for dealer options.

The only exception in the list to my explaination is the 18" wheels. Their description indicates port option. My dealer confirmed they are not port option and that items description is misleading because the tires are not part of the pricing in the package. Dealer will charge extra and only sell as wheel tire package which would generally cost about $2400.

Go research on your own and ask your dealer or Scion direct.
I'm not trying to convince you I am right.

If I can ask the manufacturer and their sales dealers to confirm of the TRD sway bar and spring package was available in their ordering system as a port option and they both say YES, my next focus is on gathering documentation needed per SCCA guidelines.

My focus from now is on documentation, not verification. I'm past that.