Scion FT-86 FR-S

[Matador]

Originally Posted by ryun84

That's fine. I don't mind when people mention the faults of a brand just as long as they don't start ridiculing the drivers of the cars in question. I drive a Scion tC. It doesn't mean I'm in love with it or the brand and it doesn't make me some box-loving, anti-enthusiast, wannabe-racer. But even if someone were all those things, it doesn't give anyone the right to insult said person. If you do, then it just makes you an ass. Anyways, I would agree with your post that Toyota definitely needs some pep in their lineup. But until Toyota OFFICIALLY comes forward to spell out their plans for the FT-86, I'm just going to wait and hope things work out.

That's cool, and we more than welcome you into the community. It's not your fault of course that 75% of scion drivers (that aren't geriatric) created the stigma that the 25% of you who are serious have to live with.

Deal with it, because it's the same thing that Honda civic drivers got back in the day... and Honda drivers in enthusiast circles still live with that today. Only an NSX can save you face pretty much.

[oneday]

Originally Posted by Dimman

My issue with Scion is how it talks down to me as a real enthusiast. There is nothing real about Scion performance. There was no reason for Toyota to produce it. It's marketing vs engineering. For all the tC performance nut-swingers, enjoy your 'cool' 2 door Camry-powered Corolla. Then roll over and die for supporting the marketing decision with real dollars. xB types, Element was available before it, Cube subsequent to it. Again die, and take the Toyota North America Scion-creating retards with you...

That is just for Scion's existence. If the FT/R-86/S comes out as a Scion, I will be buying the Subaru version, a company that earned its performance reputation through engineering and reality... As well as giving up on new Toyotas.

What did Scion do to you to make you so angry? Really, that's a lot of hostility about something so trivial as a branding decision--which doesn't need to have any impact on your life. You might want to try some "woosahs" or herbal tea to get that under control.

Most car brands do not start out by being a performance brand. At some point they need to put a wheel on the track and earn their heritage. Need I remind you that Subaru's parent company is Fuji Heavy Industries (ToMoCo is the majority share holder in FHI--so FHI's engineering efforts _are_ Toyota's and, by proxy, Scion's--ouch, that's gotta hurt)? By your standards FHI should still be building airplanes and should never have taken that first pass on a rally circuit back in the early-80s, and Toyota shouldn't have been allowed to build the 2000GT or enter it in races. Makes me glad you don't run the world.

[Matador]

^again, you've got it ass backwards.

[oneday]

What exactly do I have backwards, again?

[70NYD]

Herbal teas from holland are illegal in the states, and oz, and most places around the world
Scion is not a sports performance brand. It never will be as long as marketing has more of a say than engineering, you cannot build anything great. It will also mean that a second generation scion ft86 will be raised, have more sound deadening and less power/weight (because that's what ppl want.. Right?? A tc big brother?? In scion exec eyes anywho) and a 3rd gen scion ft86 won't exist, since ppl clearly don't want that (marketing fail) if engineering had a say over marketing for a tc, it would have been a rwd to start with, it would have been sleeker 2

[Dark]

@ oneday... No offend, people can be careless about brand, but MAJORITY of potential buyers here care that the car will come out with 3 circles not Scion. If Toyota think they don't want to restore sport image that they lost for years because they want to save a fail brand, that would be fine. Their marketing department can only look 10 years forward to the future, but our enthusiast community can look even further. Because we love the car, we will help the thing to live up. However, if it's Scion, it's born to be hated by enthusiast already. You can argue whatever you want, but it's not going to change the fact.
Besides, New gen Rotary in whatever RX, Hybrid Successor of S2000(rumor), and Nissan entry level sport car(rumor) are more appeal than SCION FT-86.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

You mean it would have been cool? Holy crap I think you're on to something!

The reason why Scion fails -- they are not cool anymore.

EDIT :: And they aren't widely available either. I don't know if anyone told you, but I want an FT-86/FR-S. If it comes out under Scion, even if I wanted one very, very badly, I couldn't get one. Scion doesn't exist in this part of the world. Toyota does, but not Scion. And if you think Scion is going to fit in the small Toyota Dealership, be prepared for a chuckle fest. It'd be like 7 Clowns in a Mini.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

You mean it would have been cool? Holy crap I think you're on to something!

The reason why Scion fails -- they are not cool anymore.

EDIT :: And they aren't widely available either. I don't know if anyone told you, but I want an FT-86/FR-S. If it comes out under Scion, even if I wanted one very, very badly, I couldn't get one. Scion doesn't exist in this part of the world. Toyota does, but not Scion. And if you think Scion is going to fit in the small Toyota Dealership, be prepared for a chuckle fest. It'd be like 7 Clowns in a Mini.

You are right, Scion doesn't exist anywhere else other than the U.S., but that doesn't mean we don't get the car - Take a look at the Toyota xB and Scion xB - same car, marketed under different brands for different parts of the world. I would guess the same thing will happen in this case.

[Dimman]

Oneday and Ryun84:

Because I hate the brand and think it is a fucking retarded waste of Toyota's resources I will ridicule people who bought the fucking cars and gave Toyota the meagre financial justification to continue with this failed experiment. This is the internet, grow some thicker skin you pansies...

As for informing me of Toyota and FHI's joint business relations to shock and amaze me? Fuck off and read some of my earlier posts. I know what I'm talking about, this isn't news, or even correct (20ish% does not make a majority...).

Here's what Scion's innocent little marketing-driven brand will do to the FT/R-86/S if it gets a hold of it. It will turn it into a terrible handling car.

Why? You see Scion has been selling slow, front-wheel drive cars aimed at impressionable youth. Not news. It also has a ridiculous 'racing' program in which Scion-looking cars compete in drift, drag and time-attack events and now videos such as Tanner Foust's street drift. Also not news. It has a huge percentage of douchey fanboys that rivals the post-Fast and Furious Honda scene.

The FT/R-86/S will have an incredibly able chassis if tuned to take advantage of it. This comes from moving the short boxer engine behind the front axle and as rear-ward as possible, centralizing mass. This creates what is known as a low polar moment of inertia. What this does for us is allow the car to be potentially very responsive to steering input and turn in very quickly. And in case anyone forgot it is RWD.

By now maybe some of the more insightful readers (and maybe SW20 drivers) will see where I'm going with this...

Toyota has also had a lot of bad press recently regarding the throttle situation, which is being shown recently to have a lot more to do with driver error than previous media has reported.

Now let's put this all together...

Toyota's worst-case scenario with a Scion FR-S:
Young douchey Scion fanboys wanting to imitate Tanner Foust's driving, trade in their heavier, doughy, less powerful, FWD tCs. They now have a RWD, lighter, more powerful, drift-capable machine. Scenes of carnage follow. So to prevent this Toyota will have lawyers and PR people telling them to dial in a fuck-ton of understeer if it comes out as a Scion. (Memories of the MR2?)

I can go on for pages hating on Scion...

And believe it or not the only time I am usually this blatantly uncivil is when the lovely topic of Scion pops up.

Peace!

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Oneday and Ryun84:

Because I hate the brand and think it is a fucking retarded waste of Toyota's resources I will ridicule people who bought the fucking cars and gave Toyota the meagre financial justification to continue with this failed experiment. This is the internet, grow some thicker skin you pansies...

As for informing me of Toyota and FHI's joint business relations to shock and amaze me? Fuck off and read some of my earlier posts. I know what I'm talking about, this isn't news, or even correct (20ish% does not make a majority...).

Here's what Scion's innocent little marketing-driven brand will do to the FT/R-86/S if it gets a hold of it. It will turn it into a terrible handling car.

Why? You see Scion has been selling slow, front-wheel drive cars aimed at impressionable youth. Not news. It also has a ridiculous 'racing' program in which Scion-looking cars compete in drift, drag and time-attack events and now videos such as Tanner Foust's street drift. Also not news. It has a huge percentage of douchey fanboys that rivals the post-Fast and Furious Honda scene.

The FT/R-86/S will have an incredibly able chassis if tuned to take advantage of it. This comes from moving the short boxer engine behind the front axle and as rear-ward as possible, centralizing mass. This creates what is known as a low polar moment of inertia. What this does for us is allow the car to be potentially very responsive to steering input and turn in very quickly. And in case anyone forgot it is RWD.

By now maybe some of the more insightful readers (and maybe SW20 drivers) will see where I'm going with this...

Toyota has also had a lot of bad press recently regarding the throttle situation, which is being shown recently to have a lot more to do with driver error than previous media has reported.

Now let's put this all together...

Toyota's worst-case scenario with a Scion FR-S:
Young douchey Scion fanboys wanting to imitate Tanner Foust's driving, trade in their heavier, doughy, less powerful, FWD tCs. They now have a RWD, lighter, more powerful, drift-capable machine. Scenes of carnage follow. So to prevent this Toyota will have lawyers and PR people telling them to dial in a fuck-ton of understeer if it comes out as a Scion. (Memories of the MR2?)

I can go on for pages hating on Scion...

And believe it or not the only time I am usually this blatantly uncivil is when the lovely topic of Scion pops up.

Peace!

This!! I don't want to say "hate" directly, but well yeah, who doesn't hate a douche brand?

[WingsofWar]

I can see this happening;
U.S. gets Scion FR-S
FR-S gets bad rap for giving entry level sports car priced for youth.
FR-S sales decline
FR-S nolonger sold in states after 5 years.
Scion's image takes a hit.

Global Market gets Toyota FT86
Toyota gets praised for finally giving excitement back into the company
FT86 sales increase priced for young adults/young enthusiasts
World laughs at US again for having shitty cars only available in US
Late 90s Nostalgia

Americans Rage
Burns down every Scion dealership
???
Profit

[Dark]

Seriously, no matter how much a love the car or the brand(Toyota), If it's a Scion, I will take New Rotary successor, the Z, AWD rally inspired STi, Evo, or (what hurts the most) Subaru variant of FT-86.
what I foresee in the future for Scion are:
the best selling car for the brand: tC and iQ.
Loser of the brand: FR-S and xD
most Kids these days don't even know what's the different between RWD and FWD, the characters of cars, and some basic mechanical stuff. They only know what looks kool and what makes them one of their friends (getting the same brand).

[blur]

I forgot to mention one thing also; if the FT 86 becomes a Scion, insurance rates will be sky high.. in fact I believe scion has the highest insurance rates so far, cuz all those dumb kids decide to race em and wreck em.

[DantKR]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Oneday and Ryun84:

Because I hate the brand and think it is a fucking retarded waste of Toyota's resources I will ridicule people who bought the fucking cars and gave Toyota the meagre financial justification to continue with this failed experiment. This is the internet, grow some thicker skin you pansies...

Way to E-Thug it up. For a failed experiment, they seem to be doing fairly well.

Here's what Scion's innocent little marketing-driven brand will do to the FT/R-86/S if it gets a hold of it. It will turn it into a terrible handling car.

Why? You see Scion has been selling slow, front-wheel drive cars aimed at impressionable youth. Not news. It also has a ridiculous 'racing' program in which Scion-looking cars compete in drift, drag and time-attack events and now videos such as Tanner Foust's street drift. Also not news. It has a huge percentage of douchey fanboys that rivals the post-Fast and Furious Honda scene.

Every car has it's own ridiculous "racing" programs. Really? Want to bring up Scion "looking cars? How about the Toyota NASCAR vehicle? Looks like EVERYTHING else on the track, shit, you can't even tell any of them apart because they're all the exact same shell except with a different "badge". Give me a break, the ricer scene has been around well before Fast and the Furious and will be around well after.

The FT/R-86/S will have an incredibly able chassis if tuned to take advantage of it. This comes from moving the short boxer engine behind the front axle and as rear-ward as possible, centralizing mass. This creates what is known as a low polar moment of inertia. What this does for us is allow the car to be potentially very responsive to steering input and turn in very quickly. And in case anyone forgot it is RWD.

I'm sure everyone here knows exactly what they are expecting from the FT-86. Everyone here knows what they want for the most part, lightweight decent power, and great handling. And fk yea, RWD.

Toyota has also had a lot of bad press recently regarding the throttle situation, which is being shown recently to have a lot more to do with driver error than previous media has reported.

Now let's put this all together...

Toyota's worst-case scenario with a Scion FR-S:
Young douchey Scion fanboys wanting to imitate Tanner Foust's driving, trade in their heavier, doughy, less powerful, FWD tCs. They now have a RWD, lighter, more powerful, drift-capable machine. Scenes of carnage follow. So to prevent this Toyota will have lawyers and PR people telling them to dial in a fuck-ton of understeer if it comes out as a Scion. (Memories of the MR2?)

I can go on for pages hating on Scion...

And believe it or not the only time I am usually this blatantly uncivil is when the lovely topic of Scion pops up.

Peace!

Sounds more like misguided hatred. Scion doesn't do engineering. Toyota does. So if any hatred should be pointed at anyone, it would be Toyota and Toyota alone. They want to revive a cheaper, lighter weight sports car. I, like 99.9% of the people in the world would MUCH rather have this thing come out as a Toyota. But I'm not going to blind rage because it MIGHT be scion. It'll still be the same car with a different bad and MAYBE a different look. Scion isn't going to re-engineer the thing because in reality that would just be Toyota re-engineering it.

I forgot to mention one thing also; if the FT 86 becomes a Scion, insurance rates will be sky high.. in fact I believe scion has the highest insurance rates so far, cuz all those dumb kids decide to race em and wreck em.

The only Scion that has "higher than average" insurance rates is the TC(should be obvious). But all coups have higher insurance rates than 4 doors. Hell, my Civic had higher insurance rates than my STi <_<;