SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[bimmer635csi]

Originally Posted by Laloosh

Alright fellas I don't mean to beat a dead horse but its time to go with a front sway bar. I have read the reviews and basiclly need some opinions on picking one out. Here is the #1 requirement. I do not want to deal with any half assed crap with fitment/clunking/noise issues. #2 I do not want this car to turn into a plowing pig so the super stiff ones are not for me. Any suggeations?

Save your money and spend it on tires.


What makes you feel you need a front bar? I'm not running a front bar and have a nearly neutral car with alignment and tire pressure adjustments.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by bimmer635csi

Save your money and spend it on tires.


What makes you feel you need a front bar? I'm not running a front bar and have a nearly neutral car with alignment and tire pressure adjustments.

I have stock sized rs3 v2s, camber bolts and an alignment. The car drives great through sweepers, however its not very confidence inspiring during fast transitions. Pretty much every autox event last year I ended up going full counter lock at least once. Fun but makes you second guess fast inputs.

[AustinTX]

For the BRZ, I'm considering going back to the stock front bar and just upping the damping on the front shocks.

[Shackelford]

Here's the rule about debadging (short version only allowed in ST and higher as the rule starts under the ST rules):

14.2 BODYWORK

C. Factory rub strips, emblems, mud flaps, bolt on front valance strips/spoilers, and fog lights (except those integral to a headlight or turn signal) may be removed.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Shackelford

Here's the rule about debadging (short version only allowed in ST and higher as the rule starts under the ST rules):

14.2 BODYWORK

B. The driver and front passenger seats may be replaced with the follow- ing restrictions. The seating surface must be fully upholstered. The top of the seat, or an attached headrest, may not be below the center of the driver’s head. The seat, including mounting hardware, must weigh at least 25 pounds and must be attached using the OE body mounting holes/studs. Additional mounting points may be added.

I have no idea what to say :p

[Shackelford]

Ya, it posted the wrong quote....edited.

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

since we're on the topic, has anyone ever personally witnessed an engine teardown as a result of a protest?

Personally witnessed or not, it has happened.

Originally Posted by renfield90

Who would actually protest a debadge? Let's all come back to earth here.

Yep, actually happened.


There are ****-protests. The hope is just to not have too many of them. Everyone has their limit of **** they are willing to be, or things that they allow themselves to be mad about. Kind of like being mad about the wins for a car that is moved the next year. To some that's something valid to be mad about. For others it's stupid. It's a moving target for all.

So unfortunately the SCCA runs the full range of ****s.

The nice thing is it's up to every event's personal protest committee. AKA, anyone can be part of the solution by stepping up and being a voice of reason in an official capacity.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by mrazny

Personally witnessed or not, it has happened.

I know it has happened, but I asked if anyone here was witness to one

[AustinTX]

It's simple. The rules don't allow something. You decide to do that thing anyway. Someone can protest you. Emotion doesn't factor into that part of it. Whether it's a BS protest or not, it's technically cheating. You guys must really hate your badges

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by AustinTX

It's simple. The rules don't allow something. You decide to do that thing anyway. Someone can protest you. Emotion doesn't factor into that part of it. Whether it's a BS protest or not, it's technically cheating. You guys must really hate your badges

it's kind of like speed limits, the rules are there on paper but they are hard to take seriously due to the realities of life


in the case of autocross cosmetic identity is/can be a powerful aspect of one's enjoyment. So people will not follow a rule that the vast majority of actual competitors feel shouldn't be in there. In some ways you can even argue that "anti labeling" is a thing. Maybe I don't want Scion to receive free advertising from me?


Having said that, as a Canadian, I have no impact on the SCCA.

And I don't follow the rule changes too much. Is de-badging and similar items ever addressed by the constituency?

[AustinTX]

Think of the slippery slope. Perhaps the car has 25 other things that could be considered as "appearance, comfort, convenience" things that don't 'materially' reduce the weight. I read that rule as "you can replace/modify stuff, but you can't remove it." Think of how YOU would write the rules and then think of how the solo world tear them to shreds

In the case of badges, it's likely that the protest would be upheld with no penalty. People have absolutely been protested for small stuff such as this, but only at the biggest events. If you truly care this much and you are actually an SCCA member, ask for a clarification. I think the badges look nice, myself.

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by Arigh

I don't understand how this rule, particularly the bold portion, doesn't cover debadging. I also feel that the word cheating is a strong word for a non-performance effecting modification that ends up as less than a pound of weight loss.

Honestly, if the rules committee does not understand that their rule clearly reads it as allowable, and allows someone to protest it, then they have no business writing the rules.

/endrant

Rules committee has nothing to do with someone being "allowed" to protest at an event. Big divisions of duty involved here.

National rules bodies attempt to write clear concise language.

Event personnel attempt to interpret the rules language fairly on-site.


Rules language can go through formal processes of editing at the behest of the committees or at the behest of membership writing in and voicing concerns.

Membership can also ask for clarifications. Those clarifications are "sort-of" binding. AKA, a douchenozzle heading a PC can decide that paper is the only thing credible and only accept the year's rulebook and produced Fasttrack printed in Sportscar. Of course you could then attempt to get the douche penalized for being a douche in an official capacity for doing so, etc. etc.

[renfield90]

We don't hate badges, we hate mouth breathers who take the fun out of the sport. I started autocrossing to compete against people so I can better myself and my driving. If someone protests a debadge they need to seriously examine their motivations, think about their life choices, find Jesus...something.

Originally Posted by mrazny

Kind of like being mad about the wins for a car that is moved the next year. To some that's something valid to be mad about. For others it's stupid. It's a moving target for all.

Are people still bitter about my five seconds of snark?

For the record I never wrote a letter, but if I've got haters then I'm glad.

[mrazny]

Originally Posted by renfield90

We don't hate badges, we hate mouth breathers who take the fun out of the sport. I started autocrossing to compete against people so I can better myself and my driving. If someone protests a debadge they need to seriously examine their motivations, think about their life choices, find Jesus...something.


Are people still bitter about my five seconds of snark?

For the record I never wrote a letter, but if I've got haters then I'm glad.

I have no idea, just a point of reference recent enough.

I don't disagree on the badges part, but if any statements are other than "just the facts" it seems to unhinge 7thgear.

And also unfortunately besides sportsmanship clauses, there's no rules against being a ****. Took a long history of being a **** to finally catch up to Mark Smith from things I've gathered.