AP Racing brake systems in development

[LittleBlueGT]

Anyone here actually use these in salty winter conditions? I know some rally guys use them (and that has to be worse then me driving on winter city streets).

I also know that many guys with Wilwood calipers DD them in the winter, and they seem to work fine.

I understand the risks, but I just want to know if anyone has actually done it with these, and what sort of feedback they have.



ps: spoke with the guys at Wilwood, and they said to just wash the SS pistons with soap and water before pushing them back into the calipers.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT

Anyone here actually use these in salty winter conditions? I know some rally guys use them (and that has to be worse then me driving on winter city streets).

I also know that many guys with Wilwood calipers DD them in the winter, and they seem to work fine.

I understand the risks, but I just want to know if anyone has actually done it with these, and what sort of feedback they have.



ps: spoke with the guys at Wilwood, and they said to just wash the SS pistons with soap and water before pushing them back into the calipers.

That's gonna be a lot of washing and rebuilding...

[dp1]

I'm going to have my AP Sprint kit swapped for stock every Fall and swapped back in Spring before track/AX. Had it installed new in late Feb in North East and have some corrosion on pistons. Will have them rebuilt by Essex this winter just in case.

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's gonna be a lot of washing and rebuilding...

And you know that from personal experience?


A member from a forum using Wilwood calipers:

"I had Wilwoods on my car for several years on track and in the salt in the winter. I asked Wilwood about effects and their comment was that I should clean the pistons before shoving them back into the bores at pad changes. All the dirt track guys run Dynalites with no boots. If it works under those conditions it will work anywhere. The pistons were fairly easy to clean up. I was able to grab them with a piece of rubber (for opening jars) and rotate them so I could clean all the way around. "


Wilwoods View:

"Many people are curious about the 'street-ability' of Wilwood calipers since they don't have dust boots. Do they have to be 're-built' after driving through the winter or when changing pads? The simple answer is "no".



Wilwood calipers are built to such high tolerances these days that road grime will not get in between the piston and caliper housing. With some simple care provided when changing pads, Wilwood calipers can run indefinitely without needing rebuilding. All that is necessary when changing pads is to spray the exposed pistons with brake cleaner and wipe off with a clean rag before pushing the pistons back into the caliper. This simple step is actually why many big brake kit manufacturers have dust boots on their calipers; they believe their customers are too lazy to do this simple task.



Some people are also curious as to why Wilwood does not provide dust boots on most of their calipers. The reason is pretty simple. Wilwood calipers are designed with ultimate performance in mind, i.e.: they expect their calipers to be used hard, which means high temperatures. Dust boots turn to a gooey mess or turn hard and brittle when exposed to the temperatures of driving events/track events and in either case, loose any of their effectiveness to keep road grime off the pistons. When you stop and think about it, this could actually cause a dangerous situation. If you run dust boot equipped calipers very hard (to the point of corrupting the dust boots ability to keep grime off the pistons) and then push the pistons back into the caliper without cleaning them, you could unknowingly compromise the piston/caliper seal and possibly cause a brake fluid leak or total failure."

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally Posted by dp1

I'm going to have my AP Sprint kit swapped for stock every Fall and swapped back in Spring before track/AX. Had it installed new in late Feb in North East and have some corrosion on pistons. Will have them rebuilt by Essex this winter just in case.

How much corrosion? I was hoping the SS pistons wouldn't corrode.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT

How much corrosion? I was hoping the SS pistons wouldn't corrode.

Not much but noticeable

[JRitt]

Another international podium for our Essex Designed AP Racing Sprint Kit at the Targa Newfoundland!

Both of the Speed Academy boys (Pete and Dave) have a brass pair on them...watch some great in-car footage on our blog.

They actually pulled the entire week-long driving event off with a single set of Ferodo DS2500 pads, which impressed the heck out of me. I believe that speaks volumes about both the cooling capacity of the discs and calipers, and the capability of the DS2500's under wildly varying conditions.

[Dave-ROR]

Seriously, I couldn't get two days at Road Atlanta out of DS3000s lol

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Seriously, I couldn't get two days at Road Atlanta out of DS3000s lol

Glazed the DSUNOs in half a day.

Jeff must be raging against us Dave...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Glazed the DSUNOs in half a day.

Jeff must be raging against us Dave...

This was in the Integra though not the BRZ

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT

How much corrosion? I was hoping the SS pistons wouldn't corrode.

Dont run wilwoods or ap brakes where you see a ton of salt without boots, it will just eat away at the brakes and I dont care what the tolerances are salt spray gets into everything and rots it out. If you track the car in summer last thing you need is a risk of leaking from seals.

I had one winter and on the car a bad one and it just destroyed the underbody. Its not worth risking this with an uncoated un booted caliper.

Originally Posted by CSG David

Glazed the DSUNOs in half a day.

Jeff must be raging against us Dave...

Must be your tracks are hard core. My local tracks the brakes are happy with XP10 and DS2500. DS2500 were good to but way too much brake dust and nasty dust too.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Dont run wilwoods or ap brakes where you see a ton of salt without boots, it will just eat away at the brakes and I dont care what the tolerances are salt spray gets into everything and rots it out. If you track the car in summer last thing you need is a risk of leaking from seals.

I had one winter and on the car a bad one and it just destroyed the underbody. Its not worth risking this with an uncoated un booted caliper.





Must be your tracks are hard core. My local tracks the brakes are happy with XP10 and DS2500. DS2500 were good to but way too much brake dust and nasty dust too.

We have other options available if people are interested. It's also recommended to rebuild your calipers every now and then, especially if you live in salt environments (wash your car every time the car sees salt!). Just because something is stainless, doesn't mean it can't rust. If you put some sort of catalyst between two dissimilar metals, stainless will corrode (called "galvanic corrosion"). Salt is pretty damn good at that...

I don't like DSUNOs, but they do work well. Why I don't like them? They are incredibly annoying. I think I will start recommending DS1.11 to people over the DSUNOs if people are into Ferodos.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by CSG David

We have other options available if people are interested. It's also recommended to rebuild your calipers every now and then, especially if you live in salt environments (wash your car every time the car sees salt!). Just because something is stainless, doesn't mean it can't rust. If you put some sort of catalyst between two dissimilar metals, stainless will corrode (called "galvanic corrosion"). Salt is pretty damn good at that...

I don't like DSUNOs, but they do work well. Why I don't like them? They are incredibly annoying. I think I will start recommending DS1.11 to people over the DSUNOs if people are into Ferodos.

The DSUNOs were average. I actually preferred the DS2500s they were at least consistent. But again this was at two tracks easy on brakes.

At least on this car, I don't see much reason why not to just stick with XP8, XP10 and 12. And Maybe 999 for hardcore use. They are work very well without horrible dusting. (on AP)

Last winter here, was horrible. Absolutely no way to ever keep car clean from salt, you could wash it and 10 miles later coated again. And the salt mixes have gotten more tacky. Cars that are 1-2 years old look like 5 year old cars with rust and corrosion.

I can see an area who has light winters or just cold being ok to run the kits but if you are in the area I spoke about. Take the brakes off, or just park the car. If you drive through the salt like that a rebuild is absolutely needed after winter if you care about safety. The Sprint and Enduro calipers are anodized not coated so they will just turn to white ash. Just not worth it.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

The DSUNOs were average. I actually preferred the DS2500s they were at least consistent. But again this was at two tracks easy on brakes.

At least on this car, I don't see much reason why not to just stick with XP8, XP10 and 12. And Maybe 999 for hardcore use. They are work very well without horrible dusting. (on AP)

Last winter here, was horrible. Absolutely no way to ever keep car clean from salt, you could wash it and 10 miles later coated again. And the salt mixes have gotten more tacky. Cars that are 1-2 years old look like 5 year old cars with rust and corrosion.

I can see an area who has light winters or just cold being ok to run the kits but if you are in the area I spoke about. Take the brakes off, or just park the car. If you drive through the salt like that a rebuild is absolutely needed after winter if you care about safety. The Sprint and Enduro calipers are anodized not coated so they will just turn to white ash. Just not worth it.

True story bro. 999 is still pretty damn good. We're experimenting on the Winmax compounds as well to find out the balance and bite of them compared to the 999. The compounds are still being made so we'll have more to update soon.