Spinning at Buttonwillow (1CW)

[ayau]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

No, I figured that the chance of having an incident that would exceed the deductible was really low. Frankly I still think that is generally the case though I am going to seriously look into the bulk options for HPDE insurance.

Had you hit the wall, it would have been easily over your deductible. I think buying track insurance will greatly depend on the track. Some tracks have a lot of run-off, some don't.

A lot of people seem to go with Lockton for track insurance.

http://www.locktonmotorsports.com/pr...ack-insurance/

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by CSG David

NASA or SCCA aren't so forgiving if you go 2 wheels off. Are you doing NASA to get a race license? A little coaching from us will get you faster and more comfortable within a day.

In this case I signed up because I want to give Willow springs a try and it fit into my schedule. In the long run I might consider trying to get a race license but for now I need to work my skills up quite a bit first.

I've been pretty proud of my low rate of two and four wheel off events (I think I've dropped two wheels once when I over cooked Star Mazda some (where I just steered straight like I was supposed to do), and I had a four wheel off going into sunset because I panicked at my entry speed and of course this big one). It is a little strange that all of my offs have been at Buttonwillow; I'm not really sure why other than that maybe the fact that most parts are safer to go off on makes me feel overly safe in general. Out of fourteen track days, four have been at Buttonwillow with no day having more than one event.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by ayau

Had you hit the wall, it would have been easily over your deductible. I think buying track insurance will greatly depend on the track. Some tracks have a lot of run-off, some don't.

A lot of people seem to go with Lockton for track insurance.

http://www.locktonmotorsports.com/pr...ack-insurance/

Yeah, I've gotten insurance from them several times and after a while I started to feel a bit less insecure about going on track. It is all about probability and luck as to whether it works as a good thing or not. What I've pretty much settled on is that I get insurance the first time I go to a new track, so whether I go to Willow springs this weekend or wait until trying the new 5 mile course at Thunderhill in June, I will be getting insurance for my next event.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

I've been signed up with a local race shop for a month now to get a custom roll bar and hard mounted race seat installed with six point harnesses.

Are you getting a chair with head protection? What about a HANS device, or the equivalent - will you be getting one of them?

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Are you getting a chair with head protection? What about a HANS device, or the equivalent - will you be getting one of them?

I ended up going with Cobra Suzuka GT seats. I wish there were more seats with removable halos but there aren't any that I could find besides the Sparco Ergo which is half way impossible to get last I checked (sold out everywhere). I plan on getting a HANs device also, especially after this. Truth be told I've had a little bit of sore neck the last two days.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

Yeah, I've gotten insurance from them several times and after a while I started to feel a bit less insecure about going on track. It is all about probability and luck as to whether it works as a good thing or not. What I've pretty much settled on is that I get insurance the first time I go to a new track, so whether I go to Willow springs this weekend or wait until trying the new 5 mile course at Thunderhill in June, I will be getting insurance for my next event.

I wish I knew about the price of each event sooner. I was surprised that for a price of BRZ, it's only about $140 to insure per event. That's a small price to pay given that the car will cost 25-30k to replace. I was also surprised that a cheap car to insure e.g., 10k, will still cost about $130 per event. No point buying a cheap beater to take the track and sacrifice modern safety equipment, IMO.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

I ended up going with Cobra Suzuka GT seats. I wish there were more seats with removable halos but there aren't any that I could find besides the Sparco Ergo which is half way impossible to get last I checked (sold out everywhere). I plan on getting a HANs device also, especially after this. Truth be told I've had a little bit of sore neck the last two days.

Glad to hear you're getting the HANS device! Be sure you get the 2" shoulder straps. I've had the opportunity to feel my HANS device doing its job, and it did it quite well. I had no discomfort at all after the crash (a 70 MPH double-tap into Armco).

What do you think would have happened if you'd had the Suzuka GT, the harness, and a HANS device on and you'd hit the wall side-on?

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by ayau

I wish I knew about the price of each event sooner. I was surprised that for a price of BRZ, it's only about $140 to insure per event. That's a small price to pay given that the car will cost 25-30k to replace. I was also surprised that a cheap car to insure e.g., 10k, will still cost about $130 per event. No point buying a cheap beater to take the track and sacrifice modern safety equipment, IMO.

If you are concerned about the risk of tracking your car and you do at least ten EVENTs (not days but separate events) then I would check out the bulk purchase options that Lockton offers. I think they cut the price per event way down with that. When you think about I think it makes sense. From what I have seen on the track, I would imagine that there are three kinds of people who really drive the rates. The first of course is the person who has never been on track and messes up (I would think this wouldn't be the highest risk category but I've seen a couple of people in it munge up their cars). The second would be people like me who are picking up substantial speed every event as we improve our skills but we don't yet have the full repertoire error handling modes and reactions to use them (not to mention we don't have the full set of situational awareness skills that an advanced driver would have such as "weird, I was able to take that corner way faster this morning when it was cooler... oh yeah, hot pavement reduces traction" and "gee, I wish I hadn't taken that point by right before the corner" (I saw this the first event I was at buttonwillow when a guiy took a pass right before sunset and ended up with his civic in the k-wall on the front straight)). Finally you probably have the single highest risk driver which would be the new person who brings their supped up quad turbo supercharged blah blah blah mo powaaaaaa fifteen year old mustang with stock brakes and original brake fluid who then proceeds to hammer the throttle (I haven't seen this one yet so I guess that is a good thing for tech inspections!).

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Glad to hear you're getting the HANS device! Be sure you get the 2" shoulder straps. I've had the opportunity to feel my HANS device doing its job, and it did it quite well. I had no discomfort at all after the crash (a 70 MPH double-tap into Armco).

What do you think would have happened if you'd had the Suzuka GT, the harness, and a HANS device on and you'd hit the wall side-on?

After talking to the guys at Wine Country motor sports in Sonoma I went with three inch belts. The two inch belts require a HANs device to be safe but the three inchers can work with a hans device as long as you get them seated properly. Given the equal protection rule most groups have, I'd rarely be able to give rides if I got two inch shoulders on either or both seats.

If I had had a harness and seat I think I wouldn't have had the incident actually. I wouldn't have bumped the steering which pushed me over the last six inches or foot that made the whole mess and I would have just thought it was a close call from an early apex (or maybe I would have gone off straight instead of focusing on the yawing of the car from VSC fighting the oversteer I initiated by bumping the steering).

If I had still had the incident and had all the gear, then my neck would be a little less stiff (part of that is also from just fighting G-forces all weekend I think, not just the rapid deceleration of my incident).

[ayau]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

If you are concerned about the risk of tracking your car and you do at least ten EVENTs (not days but separate events) then I would check out the bulk purchase options that Lockton offers. I think they cut the price per event way down with that. When you think about I think it makes sense. From what I have seen on the track, I would imagine that there are three kinds of people who really drive the rates. The first of course is the person who has never been on track and messes up (I would think this wouldn't be the highest risk category but I've seen a couple of people in it munge up their cars). The second would be people like me who are picking up substantial speed every event as we improve our skills but we don't yet have the full repertoire error handling modes and reactions to use them (not to mention we don't have the full set of situational awareness skills that an advanced driver would have such as "weird, I was able to take that corner way faster this morning when it was cooler... oh yeah, hot pavement reduces traction" and "gee, I wish I hadn't taken that point by right before the corner" (I saw this the first event I was at buttonwillow when a guiy took a pass right before sunset and ended up with his civic in the k-wall on the front straight)). Finally you probably have the single highest risk driver which would be the new person who brings their supped up quad turbo supercharged blah blah blah mo powaaaaaa fifteen year old mustang with stock brakes and original brake fluid who then proceeds to hammer the throttle (I haven't seen this one yet so I guess that is a good thing for tech inspections!).

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to attend more than a couple of events being that I'm from the midwest.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by ayau

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to attend more than a couple of events being that I'm from the midwest.

Ah, that is a bummer. I love the fact that in CA we have so many tracks to choose from. That said I think road courses are becoming more and more common. I was really surprised to find out that a course was built in Hastings Nebraska only a short distance away from where I have some extended family.

[RehabJeff86]

Time to upgrade to AIM Solo DL!!

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

Time to upgrade to AIM Solo DL!!

I'm still hoping for better results from my phone; I think really what I will need will be some sort of external sensors that are really hard mounted and calibrated.

[RehabJeff86]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

I'm still hoping for better results from my phone; I think really what I will need will be some sort of external sensors that are really hard mounted and calibrated.

U mean GPS sensor? I dunno if u r familiar with AIM Solo DL or not, dont wana sound like an ass but its highly accurate in lap time and able to direct download real time data via OBDII port - one of my best track mod so far hehehehe at least most of my hardcore track associates would only validate AIM Solo lap time claims :P


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