Who is happy the engine will be Naturally Aspirated?

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by AshWilliams

I don't understand the reluctance to make a powerful version of this car.

Therein lies the crux of this car being rejected by those blinded by the Horsepower Wars.

It's not an ignorant reluctance to add power, it's the calculated moderation of balance. The vehicle developers aren't going to add power [and thus cost/complexity] and give up their ideals for the sole reason of satisfying the naive and ignorant internet bench-racing mongers.

To review. The Zx6 is not a Japanese Mustang; it is a coupe' Miata. It boils down to this: if you don't already love the driving dynamics and man/machine oneness of the Miata, the Zx6 is not your brand of Vodka. Like Levi said, there are a good selection of affordable cars out there to quench a power-hungry driver.

[EvoFanatic]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Therein lies the crux of this car being rejected by those blinded by the Horsepower Wars.

It's not an ignorant reluctance to add power, it's the calculated moderation of balance. The vehicle developers aren't going to add power [and thus cost/complexity] and give up their ideals for the sole reason of satisfying the naive and ignorant internet bench-racing mongers.

To review. The Zx6 is not a Japanese Mustang; it is a coupe' Miata. It boils down to this: if you don't already love the driving dynamics and man/machine oneness of the Miata, the Zx6 is not your brand of Vodka. Like Levi said, there are a good selection of affordable cars out there to quench a power-hungry driver.

That is all fine and good but I want a car that drives like a Miata with the power of an Evo, Stang, or 370Z. Adding a turbo adds maybe 50-150 lbs depending on how big the system is. And I will be lowering the car and doing major weight reduction anyways so that extra turbo weight will be mitigated.

[AshWilliams]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Therein lies the crux of this car being rejected by those blinded by the Horsepower Wars.

It's not an ignorant reluctance to add power, it's the calculated moderation of balance. The vehicle developers aren't going to add power [and thus cost/complexity] and give up their ideals for the sole reason of satisfying the naive and ignorant internet bench-racing mongers.

To review. The Zx6 is not a Japanese Mustang; it is a coupe' Miata. It boils down to this: if you don't already love the driving dynamics and man/machine oneness of the Miata, the Zx6 is not your brand of Vodka. Like Levi said, there are a good selection of affordable cars out there to quench a power-hungry driver.

If this were a Toyota or a Honda, that argument of selling an underpowered sports car would make sense, but this is a Subaru with a boxer engine.

No one is trying to take away your slow NA FT86, you're more than welcome to buy one and try to explain to everyone how it's inexpensive, economical, and practical and that straightline acceleration is not important as long as it has perfect 50/50 balance or something.

I want the rocketship WRX/STi version because I can afford 35 thousand for a gonzo Subaru coupe already own a much faster Subaru (WRX) that costs the same (or less, especially now) and is more practical. I really don't want to see this car as the slower, more expensive sibling to the WRX. But that's exactly what it is. You will get whipped on the twisty roads and off the red light line by a WRX wagon that's filled to the brim with IKEA furniture. Then you can go on the internet and explain how the BRZ/Scion is better because it's less powerful and costs more... I guess.

There is a huge catalog of slow, underpowered Japanese sports cars from the 90s, we don't need another one.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by EvoFanatic

That is all fine and good but I want a car that drives like a Miata with the power of an Evo, Stang, or 370Z. Adding a turbo adds maybe 50-150 lbs depending on how big the system is. And I will be lowering the car and doing major weight reduction anyways so that extra turbo weight will be mitigated.

So go buy an evora or Cayman

[chulooz]

this is not the car you are searching for. Hahaha

But I agee, bring on the power and give this thing the full potential of its performance.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by AshWilliams

If this were a Toyota or a Honda, that argument of selling an underpowered sports car would make sense, but this is a Subaru with a boxer engine.

No one is trying to take away your slow NA FT86, you're more than welcome to buy one and try to explain to everyone how it's inexpensive, economical, and practical and that straightline acceleration is not important as long as it has perfect 50/50 balance or something.

I want the rocketship WRX/STi version because I can afford 35 thousand for a gonzo Subaru coupe already own a much faster Subaru (WRX) that costs the same (or less, especially now) and is more practical. I really don't want to see this car as the slower, more expensive sibling to the WRX. But that's exactly what it is. You will get whipped on the twisty roads and off the red light line by a WRX wagon that's filled to the brim with IKEA furniture. Then you can go on the internet and explain how the BRZ/Scion is better because it's less powerful and costs more... I guess.

There is a huge catalog of slow, underpowered Japanese sports cars from the 90s, we don't need another one.

The car you want to buy does not exist at this time.
If you want to use the BRZ as a straw man fine, but it doesn't diminish its value to those who are happy it is being made.

[Genomaxter]

I am not going to try and convince anyone why this car is great. If you have to be told, you cant understand it. Plus, the less of you who know about how good this car is for the first shipment, the better my odds are of getting the exact one I want!

Go buy a Hyundai!

[mrtodd]

AshWilliams, I can completely understand where you are coming from. I was a little bit disappointed when the official power output numbers came in; however, upon reading the reviews on it's handling potential and especially the phenomenal curb weight, I immediately changed my mind. In my opinion this is the perfect tuner's car - we will have so many options in the next few years to modify everything. Like EvoFanatic mentioned, adding boost is one option which I'm sure will be very popular for us tuner geeks. I for one am still debating on whether to stay NA just to see what numbers I can get out of it, or boosting it via my own custom turbo setup (i personally don't like superchargers). Either way, I'm extremely excited about working on this engine to make it how I like it.

Obviously not everyone feels the same way. In the end, I suppose I'm just a car nerd who loves to get his hands dirty. That being said, this car is perfect for me.

[fatoni]

types this:

Originally Posted by EvoFanatic

That's why the Miata is on top of the Top Gear lap times bored right?
Also, you are clearly the bad driver if actually you believe being fast in a straight line does not require skill. I challange you to go to a IHRA event and go head to head with an experienced driver with similar weight and power numbers. I bet he smokes you.

and then calls me dense

Originally Posted by EvoFanatic

You are unbelievably dense.
1. a 2.0 Turbo can easily beat a big V8 in many track situations.
2. Top Gear reference is actually very credible because they use professional drivers testing car v. car on the same track and also use relatively large sample sizes. If you believe the stig is always the same driver then you really have a more creditable source.
3. The point is miata = nowhere near as fast as a Supercar around a track (even if its a giant corner)
4. I am talking about competitive or semi-competitive tracking and I bet you will never see a 2L NA v. anything else but other other 2L Na because it wouldn't be fast enough.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Genomaxter

I am not going to try and convince anyone why this car is great. If you have to be told, you cant understand it. Plus, the less of you who know about how good this car is for the first shipment, the better my odds are of getting the exact one I want!

Well said.

I'm a bit fascinated how some posters are getting rather emotional over the purpose of this car, as if the manufacturer is personally screwing them over for not abiding to their individual demands while simultaneously listing cars that fit their needs better. Subaru and Toyota aren't out to custom-tailor to every quirky ownership demographic; they're making a certain portfolio of cars that their management has decided makes good business sense.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

So go buy an evora or Cayman

You forgot, he wants a Cayman for the price of a Miata or Z :P Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by mrtodd

I suppose I'm just a car nerd who loves to get his hands dirty. That being said, this car is perfect for me.

Very right. That is just the purpose of this car. I would not start getting my hands dirty on a 45K BMW or on a 85K Porsche, but on a 25K Subaru, no problem.

[AshWilliams]

Let's not forget that Subaru was reluctant to sell its performance turbo vehicles in the US, thinking that there'd be no market for niche turbo sedans and wagons based on WRC cars. There were heated discussions from people who believed that an RS Impreza was "just as good" as the WRX, until Subaru sac'd up and brought over the WRX and the RS suddenly disappeared from our market because who wants a car that just LOOKS like it can go fast. Today, only the most fire breathing models are kept from American shores, and we can even walk in and get an STi if we so want.

I'm just very curious what kind of logic Toyota used to sell the idea of an NA "performance" car to Subaru. Maybe it had something to do with not killing Benevolent Chairman Toyoda when he loosed this thing on the track in a flourish of geriatric driving prowess not seen since the demise of Paul Newman. I get that it handles well, so do many cars. I just don't get the dilution of performance, or why there wasn't a turbo variant available at launch.

And while people are just happy to say that "if you want a car that actually is fast, get a Genesis or WRX or Veloster Turbo or Mustang V6 or a Camaro V6 or 370Z," exactly how many 86 platforms is Toyota/Subaru going to move when everyone who has been talking this thing up on the forums gets one and the rest of the market (who has a tendency to cross shop) doesn't see the performance advantages of this car. Also, and I really hate to say this, but being one of the slowest sports cars in the segment in 0-60 times is not really a very convincing argument to get me to part with 25 grand.

I'm still hoping that Subaru makes a high-powered version of the BRZ. It's not that difficult for them to dig up some intercoolers and turbos that will immediately add some pulse to the engine, and I'm okay to wait for that. Until then, I'd rather wait for a price drop on the current crop of underpowered cars or get a used one...

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by AshWilliams

I'm just very curious what kind of logic Toyota used to sell the idea of an NA "performance" car to Subaru. Maybe it had something to do with not killing Benevolent Chairman Toyoda when he loosed this thing on the track in a flourish of geriatric driving prowess not seen since the demise of Paul Newman. I get that it handles well, so do many cars. I just don't get the dilution of performance, or why there wasn't a turbo variant available at launch.

The BRZ has never been claimed to be a "performance car". Simple classic-formula sports cars are not fast, let alone "rocketships". The most satisfying sports cars ever [Elan, Miata, E-type, 356, E30//M3, Elise, S2000, ITR] were never very quick, but they are FUN to drive. Performance? No. Fun? In spades! Move your projections or irrelevant dreams about performance aside, this car isn't about that.