Poor Sales of Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S Likely To Rule Out New Variants

[TwinturboCamry]

That's why I bought two frs and vaccum packed one so it stays fresh.

[dnieves]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Anybody who thought this would follow a different trend from any other Japanese sports car built in the last fifteen years is delusional.

i.e. S2000, Miata, RX8

You have a point but what is Nissan doing right with the Z?!?! They're great little cars despite being impractical two seaters, thirsty, and built by Nissan?

[Bristecom]

They need to completely forget about a convertible and focus on what people really want. Why are most people who are in the market for an affordable sports car not buying it? It's almost certainly due to power. Even if they bumped the power up a little, it would likely be enough to satisfy many Americans who are used to good power from their previous vehicle.

However, I think it's quite normal that sales are tapering off now. That's why most manufacturers have 2 year refresh cycles. So, fix the reliability concerns with the car and give it more power with a smooth torque band and maybe add things like an arm-rest (but not that funky clunky Scion one they came out with recently). Then the sales should pick up again for another two years at least.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Anybody who thought this would follow a different trend from any other Japanese sports car built in the last fifteen years is delusional.

i.e. S2000, Miata, RX8

actually i expected it to.. that's why i bought mine...

Originally Posted by Levi

The sportscar market is just too small. So once all the true enthusiasts bought the car, that is it.

no it's not. look at the demand for used supra's, s2000's, etc. there is a demand, just not necessarily a new-car demand.

Originally Posted by CruiseZen

I think both Subaru and Scion could do a better job of advertising. When I started telling people about the FR-S I am about to buy, more than 90% of them tell me that they've never heard of or ever seen the car.

same deal for me. out of the 50 or so relatives/friends that i've talked to about what i bought, only about 10 of them knew what it was before i started talking about it..

Originally Posted by ericmpena

Out of that whole list, there's absolutely no other car I'd rather own than my BRZ.

well, considering that nearly half that list is 86 variants, that's not much of a statement

[fistpoint]

Wasn't our car the "fastest selling" X type of vehicle at one point? I figured they had sold damn near every one they imported. Oh well.

I imagine part of the blame is the cost. I've said it in the past and I'll say it again: for what you get on this car at $25k pales in comparison to what that same $25k will buy you in a Toyota or Honda. They wanted a premium, and now sales are suffering as a result to cars like the Focus and Hyundai which offer tons more tech for the same cost.

I don't give a shit about the "missing" tech from our twins, I do however care that we basically paid for this "missing" tech rather than the car simply costing less. If the cars(all 3) were $1500 less, I'm sure the sales would be much higher because the competition would be that much more expensive by comparison. I was/am more than willing to pay that $1500 premium for the styling alone.

Either way, I don't care. This just means our cars will be more exclusive rather than dime-a-dozen Mustang/Civics. I am surprised though.

Originally Posted by airjonny

What is Subaru's reluctance to add more power to their cars? I mean how hard would it be to slap the new WRX engine in that thing?

We already have the new WRX engine...you have it backwards, the WRX uses OUR engine, but has a turbo added. Did you mean the 2.5L used in the WRX STi?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by dnieves

You have a point but what is Nissan doing right with the Z?!?! They're great little cars despite being impractical two seaters, thirsty, and built by Nissan?

Not much other than they keep building them. Sales are mediocre in the best of light. I don't really consider it a sports car, more of a Japanese pony car which is why it escaped my memory. But yeah, it follows the same trend as the other cars I mentioned. Great 1-2 years, tapers off until the company does a serious refresh or axes it completely a couple years later. Maybe it's profitable, I don't know.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

[cactus]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

It's important to note the source reported in the Article. Auto Express UK and Gerald Killmann at Toyota Europe.

'Speaking with Auto Express, Toyota’s European R&D boss Gerald Killmann said the GT 86 was behind sales targets in all major markets, meaning the American-market Scion FR-S as well, and that this has created doubts towards developing further variants of the car."

1. Gerald Killmann is NOT Toyota's European R&D boss. Killmann's current title as last reported just a few days ago was European Projects Director at Toyota’s R&D Centre in Belgium. He previously (2011) was reported to be head of powertrain development at Toyota Motor Europe. This man's position at Toyota is being somewhat inflated by the author to suggest he's the boss for all R&D at Toyota in Europe.

2. The article revolves around Toyota using more diesel BMW engines in its cars. Is it possible or even likely that Killmann might favor developing platforms that use European sourced diesel engines over Japanese gasoline or hybrid powerplants if he's spent his career developing engines and relationships in Europe? True in the U.K. as I understand diesels are preferred to gas/electric hybrids. What about in the rest of the world?

Most importantly, the thrust and context of the article seem to be that BMW diesels are better performing and more popular than Toyota's current hybrid and underpowered gasoline engines, and that they will replace all Toyota engines in Europe moving forward which I find unlikely. I also find it unlikely that the widespread acceptance of diesels in Europe will ever translate to widespread adoption in the U.S. before most U.S. new cars move to electric and/or hybrid electric in the near future. Hoping that BMW sourced diesels replace Toyota hybrid's in the U.S. is pipe.

Take this article with a huge grain of salt despite it's officialesque sounding source. It's got the author's confirmation bias subtext throughout especially give that it's a U.K. blog.


[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Perfect car: beige, diesel(BMW 4pot), 6 speed, 4door BRZ. I would buy it.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by soundman98

actually i expected it to.. that's why i bought mine...

What does longevity and consistency of sales have to do with the decision of buying a car?

[Dave-ROR]

This is a niche market sports car. Only a fool would have expected tons of sales. It doesn't have the "cute" factor of a Miata, the performance of a poor selling S2000, or the space of a hot hatch.

This is news? I'm shocked they sold as many as they have. Nothing against the car obviously but this isn't a friggen camry. I think they badly overestimated long term demand based on the strong initial demand.

At least Honda knew the S2000 would have poor sales when compared against it's other vehicles.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by sirsol66

It's worth pointing out, TME had no hand in development of the twins so it would not be his decision as to the future of this vehicle. That decision would be between TMC and the Chief Engineer for the twins, along with whatever business relationship Toyota continues with Subaru.

THIS

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Steve

A lot of people commenting about the car being discontinued anytime soon clearly didn't read the article.

The rumors of a hybrid, turbo, sedan, convertible, etc. cars using the 86 platform probably not happening due to "poor" sales is what they article is referring to.

Toyota wants sports cars in their lineup, and now they have a good one, they aren't going to axe it anytime soon.

...AND THIS

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by MarcFr-s

Actually the sales of this car have been quite good.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/2013-sci...140013395.html

Toyota is missing the boat.

...AND FOR HEAVEN SAKES THIS!

Take a look at the numbers for 2013 for cars relatively in the same segment as the FR-S/GT 86/BRZ (rear-drive, coupe):
Chevrolet Camaro 2013 (US): 80,567
Ford Mustang 2013 (US): 77,186
Scion FR-S 2013 (US): 18,327
Subaru BRZ 2013 (US): 8,587
Nissan 370Z 2013 (US): 6,561
Mazda MX-5 2013 (US): 5,780
Toyota GT 86 2013 (Europe): 5,079
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2013 (Canada): 1,813
Subaru BRZ 2013 (Europe): 865
As you can see, the FR-S and BRZ sit at third and fourth respectively in total U.S. sales in 2013. Not “slow” at all, it would seem. Especially considering Scion projected yearly totals of “up to 20,000″ for 2013, and between “5,000-7,000″ for the BRZ — both of which were nearly met or exceeded (wardsauto.com). And through a partial sales year in 2012, the FR-S surpassed its projected figure of 10,000 by 1,417 (11,417 sales total).

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

What does longevity and consistency of sales have to do with the decision of buying a car?

to 'beat the rush' so to speak of what happens to popular sports cars after they are discontinued and everyone wishes the mfg had kept making them for 'x' number of years until they could afford to get one..

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by MarcFr-s

Actually the sales of this car have been quite good.

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/2013-sci...140013395.html

Toyota is missing the boat.

...AND FOR HEAVEN SAKES THIS!

Take a look at the numbers for 2013 for cars relatively in the same segment as the FR-S/GT 86/BRZ (rear-drive, coupe):
Chevrolet Camaro 2013 (US): 80,567
Ford Mustang 2013 (US): 77,186
Scion FR-S 2013 (US): 18,327
Subaru BRZ 2013 (US): 8,587
Nissan 370Z 2013 (US): 6,561
Mazda MX-5 2013 (US): 5,780
Toyota GT 86 2013 (Europe): 5,079
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2013 (Canada): 1,813
Subaru BRZ 2013 (Europe): 865
As you can see, the FR-S and BRZ sit at third and fourth respectively in total U.S. sales in 2013. Not “slow” at all, it would seem. Especially considering Scion projected yearly totals of “up to 20,000″ for 2013, and between “5,000-7,000″ for the BRZ — both of which were nearly met or exceeded (wardsauto.com). And through a partial sales year in 2012, the FR-S surpassed its projected figure of 10,000 by 1,417 (11,417 sales total).

The U.S. loves this car! I'm sure the sales in Asia have been equally strong. Europe rarely has ever responded to Japanese coupes en masse. So the fact that one of Toyota's Euro's design directors is down on the Subaru power train and would like a BMW diesel is no surprise.