Can hellaflush be done "right"

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

Are you saying the riceness or the supra itself as a fad will pass?

Rice has already passed and has been replaced by hellaflush.

When's the last time you saw a car look like that Supra in regular driving? Maybe once or twice a year in the past 5 years? Sure every once in awhile you see a wing on a Civic and big wheels but nothing like the rediculous stickers and decals that were prevalent in the early '00s. Meanwhile I see slammed VW's on my commute to work daily.

Supra will remain as a cool car for awhile but I foresee it falling out of favor soon as the rice tax comes down, it generally takes about 40 years for a car to start going up in value from it's low point about 30 years in, for the last generation of Supra I expect prices to fall over the next 10-15 years unless there's a big shift in pop culture or regulations that make the car desirable again.

See cars that are now classic like 60's Corvettes and Mustangs and Camaros and 911s, they were dirt cheap in the 80's left out to rot or sold for scrap, now they're setting records at auctions which if you consider inflation these cars are just NOW selling for what their MSRP was 50 years ago.

1965 Mustang base MSRP: $2395
Adjusted for inflation: $17.7k
Average price of a 'good' condition '65 Mustang: ~$18k

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtool...port?vc=255616

Consider that right now 50's cars are sky high because demand will always be greater than supply at this point, 70's cars are just starting to swing up (C3 Corvettes, BMW 2002, Datsun 240z, 911's etc.) but they are still several years from breaking even like the cars in the 60's. Again, unless there is a huge shift in regulations or pop culture I doubt this trend will change.

Edit: I agree with Tyler, it'll never disappear completely but rather become a niche market like I mentioned with the Hot Rodders and lowriders and ratted out or whatever else is out there.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Rice has already passed and has been replaced by hellaflush.

When's the last time you saw a car look like that Supra in regular driving? Maybe once or twice a year in the past 5 years? Sure every once in awhile you see a wing on a Civic and big wheels but nothing like the rediculous stickers and decals that were prevalent in the early '00s. Meanwhile I see slammed VW's on my commute to work daily.

Supra will remain as a cool car for awhile but I foresee it falling out of favor soon as the rice tax comes down, it generally takes about 40 years for a car to start going up in value from it's low point about 30 years in, for the last generation of Supra I expect prices to fall over the next 10-15 years unless there's a big shift in pop culture or regulations that make the car desirable again.

See cars that are now classic like 60's Corvettes and Mustangs and Camaros and 911s, they were dirt cheap in the 80's left out to rot or sold for scrap, now they're setting records at auctions which if you consider inflation these cars are just NOW selling for what their MSRP was 50 years ago.

1965 Mustang base MSRP: $2395
Adjusted for inflation: $17.7k
Average price of a 'good' condition '65 Mustang: ~$18k

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtool...port?vc=255616

Consider that right now 50's cars are sky high because demand will always be greater than supply at this point, 70's cars are just starting to swing up (C3 Corvettes, BMW 2002, Datsun 240z, 911's etc.) but they are still several years from breaking even like the cars in the 60's. Again, unless there is a huge shift in regulations or pop culture I doubt this trend will change.

Edit: I agree with Tyler, it'll never disappear completely but rather become a niche market like I mentioned with the Hot Rodders and lowriders and ratted out or whatever else is out there.

The muscle car market is a bad gauge. Those numbers will double and triple for cars that people actually want, like 390 GTs, Z/28s, and Hemi/440 cars. A Plain Jane 69 Camaro driver with a 327 may only be worth 25k, but a 69 Z/28 in the same condition is worth 50k+.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

The muscle car market is a bad gauge. Those numbers will double and triple for cars that people actually want, like 390 GTs, Z/28s, and Hemi/440 cars. A Plain Jane 69 Camaro driver with a 327 may only be worth 25k, but a 69 Z/28 in the same condition is worth 50k+.

Yep. Not to mention what you'll pay for something really rare, like a Hemi 'Cuda in good condition or a Charger Daytona (both well into 6 figures, last I checked).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

The muscle car market is a bad gauge. Those numbers will double and triple for cars that people actually want, like 390 GTs, Z/28s, and Hemi/440 cars. A Plain Jane 69 Camaro driver with a 327 may only be worth 25k, but a 69 Z/28 in the same condition is worth 50k+.

I was going to research a couple different models to prove my point but I think I should try to understand yours first. Are you implying that the high end Japanese sports cars of the 90's will follow a different trend from the last 100 years of sports cars? Everything from Mercedes Gullwings to first year Corvettes to the Z28s and Hemi 440's and 911S's were at one point sold for much less than their initial price and for a fraction of what they are valued at now.

Why would the Supra be any different?

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Yep. Not to mention what you'll pay for something really rare, like a Hemi 'Cuda in good condition or a Charger Daytona (both well into 6 figures, last I checked).

Brother in law has a hemi cuda, he paid what I did for my supra, I think you guys need to check out the car market a bit more, also for sale prices and purchases on supras recently has been going up

6-figure for a average well conditioned hemi-cuda? You've been watching to much auction TV

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

Brother in law has a hemi cuda, he paid what I did for my supra, I think you guys need to check out the car market a bit more, also for sale prices and purchases on supras recently has been going up

6-figure for a average well conditioned hemi-cuda? You've been watching to much auction TV

Is that an original, numbers matching car or a driver with a 426 dropped into it? Has the car been restored? Is it a survivor? These things matter in that market. Few people care if a Supra is an original turbo car, a GTE swapped car, or an NA-T.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I was going to research a couple different models to prove my point but I think I should try to understand yours first. Are you implying that the high end Japanese sports cars of the 90's will follow a different trend from the last 100 years of sports cars? Everything from Mercedes Gullwings to first year Corvettes to the Z28s and Hemi 440's and 911S's were at one point sold for much less than their initial price and for a fraction of what they are valued at now.

Why would the Supra be any different?

It won't be. The difference is that they sold in such low numbers that it is doubtful that any of them will be considered plain jane cars so values will rise faster. Only 11k sold in the US over 6 years.....there were 559k Mustangs sold in 1965 alone. another 600k in 1966. 243k Camaros sold in 1969. Not all of them are gems.

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Is that an original, numbers matching car or a driver with a 426 dropped into it? Has the car been restored? Is it a survivor? These things matter in that market. Few people care if a Supra is an original turbo car, a GTE swapped car, or an NA-T.

All original, and as for your comment on the supra that clearly shows how little you know about supra's, original TT's always sell for more then swapped NA-TT supra's, maybe not to the average joe, but that can be said for any car

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

Brother in law has a hemi cuda, he paid what I did for my supra, I think you guys need to check out the car market a bit more, also for sale prices and purchases on supras recently has been going up

6-figure for a average well conditioned hemi-cuda? You've been watching to much auction TV

There's no way you could get an original, good condition (I didn't say average, I said good) hemi 'cuda for much less than 6 figures, unless you got it a long time ago or the seller didn't know what they had. Less than a thousand were made, they were only on sale for 2 years, and they're a fairly desirable and well known car.

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by chrisl

There's no way you could get an original, good condition (I didn't say average, I said good) hemi 'cuda for much less than 6 figures, unless you got it a long time ago or the seller didn't know what they had. Less than a thousand were made, they were only on sale for 2 years, and they're a fairly desirable and well known car.

Then maybe the owner was an idiot, but I know he didn't pay more then 5k more then I did for my supra, the only thing wrong with it is two of the gauges don't work, most likely a small wiring issue, and the starter has been replace a couple times, but that's no biggie

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

All original, and as for your comment on the supra that clearly shows how little you know about supra's, original TT's always sell for more then swapped NA-TT supra's, maybe not to the average joe, but that can be said for any car

I know **** about the Supra market, beyond the few owners that I know. They're all 5-600whp drivers that were picked up around 30k and I don't see much distinction made between factory turbo cars, swapped cars, and NA-TT cars. Conversely, a perfect 69 Camaro with an original 327 is worth 25k while a perfect 69 Camaro with an original 302 is worth 70k.

[Guff]

A 500whp APU car may very well go for 30k, but a low mileage bone stock 98 6-spd will approach 50k after this year's huge value spike. By the summer of 2014, that same car will likely be worth close to 55k.

There is a huge market for Supras, but every single variance (NA, NA-T, Stock TT, BPU, BPU+, APU, etc) will pull a very different price because of demand. On top of that, color rarity is a big factor, as many of these cars have less than 30 or so that are identical in year+color+trim. And of course, the 1996+ OBDII cars go for more than their predecessors.

That's just scratching the surface. And although the Supra isn't as valuable as some of the classic muscle cars y'all were talking about, the rate at which they are going up in value is so high that it won't be long before stock examples of Supras will be approaching/surpassing those cars.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

a lot people just build cars for internet fame these days. too worried about what everybody else will like and not so much as to what they like themselves.

Best quote I've seen in awhile. Sometimes I think back to my minitruck days (minitrucker for life!!), before the internet was commonplace, and we all built what we wanted, and the feedback from "others" came later. I don't think people were as afraid of what others thought then, because someone would have to say it to your face, and not hide behind a keyboard. I think the internet, and the fear of being "flamed" has kept a lot of creativity down, and alas we have shows full of cookie cutters.

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

I know **** about the Supra market, beyond the few owners that I know. They're all 5-600whp drivers that were picked up around 30k and I don't see much distinction made between factory turbo cars, swapped cars, and NA-TT cars. Conversely, a perfect 69 Camaro with an original 327 is worth 25k while a perfect 69 Camaro with an original 302 is worth 70k.

An original 6-speed TT in good condition modded or not will be about 25-35K depending on the color, and an Auto NA that was TT'd and 6 or 5 speed swapped will be under 25k in the same condition, again color is a big factor and if it's a hard top or targa is huge

If you don't know **** about something why do you put forth Insight and state it is factual when your going off of word of mouth? Tech not even word of mouth, your saying what you think from conversations with friends of yours who own supra's and going off the fact that they've never mentioned what sells for more

Originally Posted by Guff

A 500whp APU car may very well go for 30k, but a low mileage bone stock 98 6-spd will approach 50k after this year's huge value spike. By the summer of 2014, that same car will likely be worth close to 55k.

There is a huge market for Supras, but every single variance (NA, NA-T, Stock TT, BPU, BPU+, APU, etc) will pull a very different price because of demand. On top of that, color rarity is a big factor, as many of these cars have less than 30 or so that are identical in year+color+trim. And of course, the 1996+ OBDII cars go for more than their predecessors.

That's just scratching the surface. And although the Supra isn't as valuable as some of the classic muscle cars y'all were talking about, the rate at which they are going up in value is so high that it won't be long before stock examples of Supras will be approaching/surpassing those cars.

This man knows what he's talking about