BRZ vs. Prelude Si vs. S2000. . . Initial Thoughts - Page 9 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

CSG Mike · 07-31-2013, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayau

Why don't I see CSG development in the Miata?

Is the market too saturated?
Time to ditch the ft86 platform?

With 949 racing down the street and a few orders more magnitude budget than we have?

You don't want to know what it would cost to *replicate* Crusher, let alone the R&D.

Not to mention, they have a FLEET of race cars, not just "a shop car".

CSG Mike · 07-31-2013, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

I won't disagree that your own experience you've yet to encounter this issue but there are others who have (and lost an engine as a result) and others who are taking measures to prevent such a scenario.

There are several threads and posts out there. Here is one of several.

http://robrobinette.com/S2000TrackEvolv.htm

Rob's lost 3 engines, and none of them were directly associated with oil starvation.

You're barking at the wrong tree...

fatoni · 07-31-2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

With 949 racing down the street and a few orders more magnitude budget than we have?

You don't want to know what it would cost to *replicate* Crusher, let alone the R&D.

Not to mention, they have a FLEET of race cars, not just "a shop car".

haha i almost said something to that nature but that would probably made me out to sound like a ****. are you guys really that close to 949? i was literally just eating lunch at fuji grill off dimension and lake forest.

CSG Mike · 07-31-2013, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

haha i almost said something to that nature but that would probably made me out to sound like a ****. are you guys really that close to 949? i was literally just eating lunch at fuji grill off dimension and lake forest.

I work in the WATG building for my real job... but CSG is located in Santa Fe Springs. Evasive is down the street from us. I actually seem to be there like once a week anyways. In the end, all of us in the industry in SoCal get along

CSG Mike · 07-31-2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

Perhaps he didn't lose a motor to oil starvation because he took his own advice and installed an oil pan baffle. Hmmm...

I linked that article specifically because it covered the recommendation (upgrade the oil system) in the context (cars on the track) that was relevant towards this discussion.

Again, while you may haven't experienced it there are others that have and others who have sought ways to mitigate risk.

Can you find me of an example where oil starvation caused the engine failure, where the oil level wasn't catastrophically low?

iceman666 · 07-31-2013, 07:13 PM

With respect to the oil stavation issue, there were quite a number of early model AP1s had the oil stavation issue (I know because my dealer had to replace my entire engine at approximately 4,500 miles (no cost to me). The 4th cylinder was getting absolutely no oil (I watched the levels continously, was not tracking the car at the time or even driving hard).

After the engine replacement, I have never had an oil issue since.

Having read all of the posts on this thread, I'll say this the Twins do not handle better than my S2K. Part of the difference is clearly the tires, the other is the weight distribution. The S2K rotates much better.

Also, in my experience (an there have been a number of "oh sh*t" moments) the snap oversteer has only been an issue a) on cold tires / cold roads b) cold tires / wet roads. At track temparatures the Bridgestone S02s on the S2K stick like glue.

Having said that, with just over 1,000 miles on my BRZ, I think it makes a great daily driver and is a great car for the price. . . But certainly not better (or expected to be better) than my S2K.

Also, to the person thinking about getting rid of the S2000 for the BRZ, don't. If possible, try to keep both.

CSG Mike · 07-31-2013, 07:22 PM

The cyl 4 banjo bolt issue is different from the oil starvation that Jawnathin is taking about...
@iceman666: equalize suspension and tires on the two, and I absolutely guarantee you'll agree that the BRZ corners faster. More rotation =/= faster cornering =/= better handling, for that matter...

Here's a video of my S2k at Buttonwillow (for comparison to the s2k vs brz video posted earlier)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1syrlAw1ek"]S2000 CR Buttonwillow CW13 (2:03) - YouTube[/ame]

CSG Mike · 07-31-2013, 08:08 PM

Not a single link you've posted actually shows a failure due to oil starvation...

Baffles are a "it can't hurt" mod. Everyone is fixing a non-existent problem.

vhx1 · 07-31-2013, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

Please re-read the first quote and read why he was installing a baffle.

Another quick search pulled up another...

http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f2/tim...ther-one-2803/

I'm sure there are others too if I wanted to put more time into looking it up.

In addition to those two failures, I've posted enough links and resources that recommended installing a baffle or upgrading the oil system in an S2000 is recommended for on track reliability. I don't think posting anything else is going to change anyone's minds.

Your mind is already set that oil starvation on S2000s don't exist. Fine, we disagree and that is ok.

LOL.. the driver of that car is lacking in the skill department..

CSG Mike · 07-31-2013, 10:38 PM

@Jawnathin you're barking at the wrong tree now. I mean, you're really really really barking at the wrong tree.

Perhaps you should read the threads you linked, instead of just doing google searches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

LOL, I'm not sure where that can be deduced, but he surely has had bad luck.

If only you knew...

WolfpackS2k · 08-01-2013, 11:24 AM

I feel like the oil baffle argument is silly, in this case. Unless a car has a dry sump oil system, EVERY CAR benefits from having a baffled oil pan if it does a lot of track events.

Note, that doesn't mean it needs it. But trying to say the S2000 is better off with it is stupid, because every car would need it, including our precious BRZ

CSG Mike · 08-01-2013, 12:25 PM

I'm still waiting on this, because of the sheer level of irony in @Jawnathin's last post...

CSG Mike · 08-01-2013, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

lol, sorry to disappoint you, but I'm done talking about this.

No sense in continuing. You provide nothing of substance to this discussion. Just some rambling about barking and trees.

Another case of you're right and everyone else is wrong.

No evidence needed to back claim. Internet said so.

CSG Mike · 08-01-2013, 05:15 PM

/sarcasm

I'm still waiting for that picture of a teardown that shows F2xC engine failure from oil starvation.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
FR-S VS S2000 on the track - Initial D Style	trueno86power	FR-S / BRZ vs....	44	09-19-2013 11:49 PM
Ground Control Complete Kit Install and Initial Thoughts	Eric1855	Suspension \| Chassis \| Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing	33	03-21-2013 11:52 AM
aFe Takeda intake installed and initial thoughts	omgwtfbbqsauce	AUSTRALIA	6	10-16-2012 09:25 AM
initial thoughts from a super credible source	fatoni	Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum	0	06-02-2012 05:56 PM
3rd Gen Honda Prelude Pics	WheelFast	Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions	11	04-05-2012 02:41 PM

07-31-2013, 07:13 PM	#118
iceman666 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ / 2001 Honda S2000 Location: New Jersey Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	With respect to the oil stavation issue, there were quite a number of early model AP1s had the oil stavation issue (I know because my dealer had to replace my entire engine at approximately 4,500 miles (no cost to me). The 4th cylinder was getting absolutely no oil (I watched the levels continously, was not tracking the car at the time or even driving hard). After the engine replacement, I have never had an oil issue since. Having read all of the posts on this thread, I'll say this the Twins do not handle better than my S2K. Part of the difference is clearly the tires, the other is the weight distribution. The S2K rotates much better. Also, in my experience (an there have been a number of "oh sh*t" moments) the snap oversteer has only been an issue a) on cold tires / cold roads b) cold tires / wet roads. At track temparatures the Bridgestone S02s on the S2K stick like glue. Having said that, with just over 1,000 miles on my BRZ, I think it makes a great daily driver and is a great car for the price. . . But certainly not better (or expected to be better) than my S2K. Also, to the person thinking about getting rid of the S2000 for the BRZ, don't. If possible, try to keep both.

07-31-2013, 07:22 PM	#119
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,564 Thanks: 8,942 Thanked 14,213 Times in 6,856 Posts Mentioned: 970 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	The cyl 4 banjo bolt issue is different from the oil starvation that Jawnathin is taking about... @iceman666: equalize suspension and tires on the two, and I absolutely guarantee you'll agree that the BRZ corners faster. More rotation =/= faster cornering =/= better handling, for that matter... Here's a video of my S2k at Buttonwillow (for comparison to the s2k vs brz video posted earlier) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1syrlAw1ek"]S2000 CR Buttonwillow CW13 (2:03) - YouTube[/ame]

07-31-2013, 08:08 PM	#120
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,564 Thanks: 8,942 Thanked 14,213 Times in 6,856 Posts Mentioned: 970 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	Not a single link you've posted actually shows a failure due to oil starvation... Baffles are a "it can't hurt" mod. Everyone is fixing a non-existent problem.

08-01-2013, 12:25 PM	#124
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,564 Thanks: 8,942 Thanked 14,213 Times in 6,856 Posts Mentioned: 970 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	I'm still waiting on this, because of the sheer level of irony in @Jawnathin's last post...

08-01-2013, 05:15 PM	#126
CSG Mike Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: S2000 CR Location: Orange County Posts: 14,564 Thanks: 8,942 Thanked 14,213 Times in 6,856 Posts Mentioned: 970 Post(s) Tagged: 14 Thread(s)	/sarcasm I'm still waiting for that picture of a teardown that shows F2xC engine failure from oil starvation.

User Name		Remember Me?
Password