BRZ vs. Prelude Si vs. S2000. . . Initial Thoughts

[ayau]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

<---- elitist snob

What is the video suppose to prove? All I see is that particular BRZ/driver is keeping up with that s2k. I really want to like the twins, but the reliability, no ice mode braking, & double wishbone suspension of the s2k keeps me from getting one. I don't even mind the lack of power. Waiting for a BRZ STi that is 2500lbs 240hp & double wishbone suspension. I'll keep dreaming.

I'd rather just get a Lotus.

[thill]

Originally Posted by vtmike

I'd wager your commute is mostly highway? Stop and go is really where the twins shine. Mine gets as good of mileage in that situation as my wife's civic. My commute is all stop and go.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Yes. This car does amazingly well in the city even with spirited driving. I am getting close to 26mpg on average with 80-90% city driving and compare this to my Gencoupe (which also was fed premium fuel) which would be lucky to get 21mpg for the same commute with the same type of driving.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

<---- elitist snob

What is the video suppose to prove? All I see is that particular BRZ/driver is keeping up with that s2k. I really want to like the twins, but the reliability, no ice mode braking, & double wishbone suspension of the s2k keeps me from getting one. I don't even mind the lack of power. Waiting for a BRZ STi that is 2500lbs 240hp & double wishbone suspension. I'll keep dreaming.

That is exactly what the video 'proves'. An S2K isn't going to dust an 86 around a track with fairly equal drivers and matched tires.

Not sure what your concern is about reliability considering the only Subarus I've heard of having major issues are ones incompetently upgraded or driven like toys. I've beaten the hell out of my STI for 88,000 miles and only had a few bearings wear out in the rear end. The engine had its oil pan dropped and the rest of the engine inspected and it looks like new. Frequent oil changes make all the difference with regard to longevity.

Ice mode? The 'pedal dance' fixes that trail braking issue which only really pops up on the track. I wonder if anyone will come out with an ECU mode to tweak the TC/ASC settings to eliminate that.

The suspension seems pretty awesome on my BRZ. It's even more planted and effortless to drive than my 05 STI. Good luck waiting for a BRZ STI. If Subaru ever builds one, it'll probably be overseas market only (like most of the other non-WRX STIs) and cost as much or more than a WRX STI. Considering the Limited BRZ is already close to 30k, LOL at getting a BRZ STI for under $35,000, especially if it comes with a factory turbo and Brembos.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by ayau

I'd rather just get a Lotus.

That is true. Although there is no way that I will daily an Elise/Exige. I'd be paranoid. And forget about taking it to the track. One little off and the paper machete Lotus is totaled. I guess you really can't have an all in one car. There must be compromises somewhere. The BRZ is close, but wish they were more reliable & lighter.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

That is exactly what the video 'proves'. An S2K isn't going to dust an 86 around a track with fairly equal drivers and matched tires.

Not sure what your concern is about reliability considering the only Subarus I've heard of having major issues are ones incompetently upgraded or driven like toys. I've beaten the hell out of my STI for 88,000 miles and only had a few bearings wear out in the rear end. The engine had its oil pan dropped and the rest of the engine inspected and it looks like new. Frequent oil changes make all the difference with regard to longevity.

Ice mode? The 'pedal dance' fixes that trail braking issue which only really pops up on the track. I wonder if anyone will come out with an ECU mode to tweak the TC/ASC settings to eliminate that.

The suspension seems pretty awesome on my BRZ. It's even more planted and effortless to drive than my 05 STI. Good luck waiting for a BRZ STI. If Subaru ever builds one, it'll probably be overseas market only (like most of the other non-WRX STIs) and cost as much or more than a WRX STI. Considering the Limited BRZ is already close to 30k, LOL at getting a BRZ STI for under $35,000, especially if it comes with a factory turbo and Brembos.

Wait what? I'm talking about the BRZ, not WRX STi. Pedal dance won't relieve ice mode braking. I've tried. Only solution is to brake with the right foot and I'm not changing my driving for a car. DI issue is inevitable on tracked BRZ.

If you are coming from a WRX STi, I can see why you think the suspension/handling is already great on the BRZ. Not having the ability to adjust suspension settings (camber) is crazy.

I'd pay around $40k for a BRZ with 240hp 2500lb & reliable. My track s2k is 2550lb at around 255-260hp. It's awesome at the track, but a POS and SUCKs major donkey balls on the street (on the way to the track). Having a BRZ with the same power to weight & can be a daily would be a god send.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

That is true. Although there is no way that I will daily an Elise/Exige. I'd be paranoid. And forget about taking it to the track. One little off and the paper machete Lotus is totaled. I guess you really can't have an all in one car. There must be compromises somewhere. The BRZ is close, but wish they were more reliable & lighter.

I wish Mazda would come out with a more track oriented Miata. Hardtop + double wishbone + lightweight + 180-200hp.

[iLuveKetchup]

I'd get this http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/20/2...-5-miata-club/ (over an s2k).

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Jawnathin

Not sure I follow berating a BRZ for wear after track use. Track use will inevitably wear out components of a vehicle, and the BRZ nor S2000 are an exception.

IIRC, on an S2000, there was an issue with the front control arms detaching from the frame, oil starvation, rear axles, CVs, and wheel bearings failing, and brake rotors cracking during track use. Maybe other things too, but that's what I remember reading when I was researching them.

I never experienced any of the above listed issues at the track, nor did anyone else with an S2000 at the track events I went to. And of the items listed I've only ever heard of the rotors cracking being an issue.

Track wearing and tear is different from what ILoveKetchup described. DI problems aren't regular wear and tear. And Ice Mode isn't really a wear and tear thing, more a programming flaw.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ayau

I wish Mazda would come out with a more track oriented Miata. Hardtop + double wishbone + lightweight + 180-200hp.

Mazda built one but even the PHRF version isn't popular enough to warrant a permanent hard top roof.

The whole point of these cars is pure fun to drive. If you want a car that reminds you of an old MG then buy the Miata and if the Triumph GT6 is your style then the BRZ is your ride.

Substitute any coupe/spider duo from the last 50 years or so and the Miata/BRZ duo will fill that role.

Big differences though: when you push the start button, or twist the key, the BRZ or Mazda will start and it will run, and run and run. Also, either car will make the older cars look pretty silly on any performance measure, comfort measure or fuel efficiency measure. Don't bother contemplating the crash protection differences.

Truly the BRZ is a magical little car and just grown up enough to be owned by really serious drivers. It makes a Porsche Cayman look very expensive and just a little pointless.

[DarkSunrise]

S2000's are well-known as being reliable track cars (as far as production cars go). That said, I'm hoping the Twins will get there once the DI issue is sorted out, perhaps through an ECU update fixing the transient ignition retard tables.

[InvalidJohnny5]

This is the prime example of a **** measuring contest. With pro S2kers saying they have half an inch more length and FT86ers saying they have that more in girth. Bravo.

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by InvalidJohnny5

This is the prime example of a **** measuring contest. With pro S2kers saying they have half an inch more length and FT86ers saying they have that more in girth. Bravo.

yeah... welcome to the car vs car section of the forum. gtfo if you don't like it

[InvalidJohnny5]

I find this hilarious actually. Don't cry on me now lol.

[regal]

Originally Posted by InvalidJohnny5

This is the prime example of a **** measuring contest. With pro S2kers saying they have half an inch more length and FT86ers saying they have that more in girth. Bravo.

Well the S2k's have 5 more mph trap speed, I know our car isn't about straightline speed but neither was the S2k. Its a big difference.

The reason is simply smog regs are tougher now. The question that needs answered is does a tune + headers gain 5mph trap on the '86, or is it going to require FI. Its an important question one that no one seems to know.