Who is happy the engine will be Naturally Aspirated?

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

This car will be dominating when corning. But you will kick urself when U get dusted by a 350z in a straight line.

Lol that statement right there is one of the reasons I was considering getting a used 350z. But by the time I am able to get one I may as well just pick up the 86 since the one I am currently eying definitely will sell soon.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

...then what am I missing? Enlighten me

I don't think you're missing anything, just maybe that you are dead-set on a turbo so arguments are falling on deaf ears.

To each their own.

[DMDZK]

I am torn between both sides honestly...

I'm completely content with 200hp NA. I think it will be a blast to drive much like the s2000 and Miata are known to be. Look how infrequently you see turbo'd s2000's, seems like most owners are more than happy with NA.

I agree that 200hp is comparatively low, at least when weighed against other offerings. In a perfect world I would love something a bit closer to the s2000. 225 - 250hp would be amazing. Sadly I doubt we'll see anything near that even with a few thousand in bolt on mods.

Is forced induction the answer? maybe for some, I will live happily with 200hp and whatever I can squeeze out with I/H/E + tune. As much as a sub 6 or even near 5 sec 0 - 60 sounds great, It won't will benefit me enough to justify the expense.

With a factory turbo/supercharger I would expect this car's MSRP to jump 2 - 4k which would hurt my chance's with it since I want a well equipped model and over 30k is too much for me to justify on a car with my income level.

[Homemade WRX]

Actually, I DON'T want to turbo this car....for once.

I just find so many naive comments about turbocharging on this forum that it's almost disturbing, hence I was/have been playing the devil's advocate. I really wonder if any of the people complaining about them have actually driven a well set up turbo car. I'm going to assume not.

I am actually planning to do NA development on this engine upfront as I really do suspect the factories will release FI models, making early FI work seem almost trivial.

Originally Posted by Dimman

I don't think you're missing anything, just maybe that you are dead-set on a turbo so arguments are falling on deaf ears.

To each their own.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

I am torn between both sides honestly...

I'm completely content with 200hp NA. I think it will be a blast to drive much like the s2000 and Miata are known to be. Look how infrequently you see turbo'd s2000's, seems like most owners are more than happy with NA.

I agree that 200hp is comparatively low, at least when weighed against other offerings. In a perfect world I would love something a bit closer to the s2000. 225 - 250hp would be amazing. Sadly I doubt we'll see anything near that even with a few thousand in bolt on mods.

Is forced induction the answer? maybe for some, I will live happily with 200hp and whatever I can squeeze out with I/H/E + tune. As much as a sub 6 or even near 5 sec 0 - 60 sounds great, It won't will benefit me enough to justify the expense.

With a factory turbo/supercharger I would expect this car's MSRP to jump 2 - 4k which would hurt my chance's with it since I want a well equipped model and over 30k is too much for me to justify on a car with my income level.

A supercharged TRD FR-S

240-250 hp
190-195 tq
2,775 lbs
$27,000(if base is $22,500) add $3,000 for the TRD lip kit.

Wouldn't need brake upgrades since the brakes is straight from a WRX. This car would be EPIC!!!!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

Actually, I DON'T want to turbo this car....for once.

I just find so many naive comments about turbocharging on this forum that it's almost disturbing, hence I was/have been playing the devil's advocate. I really wonder if any of the people complaining about them have actually driven a well set up turbo car. I'm going to assume not.

I am actually planning to do NA development on this engine upfront as I really do suspect the factories will release FI models, making early FI work seem almost trivial.

Fair enough.

My turbo experience comes from A70 Supras. The most responsive being a 1JZGTE powered twin turbo JDM car with opened up intake and exhaust, as well as parasitic (power-steering) and inertial (clutch, driveshaft) reductions. It is basically a short-stroke 2JZGTE (for those that don't know) and the factory twins are each about the size of a small hamster with ceramic wheels. It was responsive as hell, but there was still a split second of lag.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

I am torn between both sides honestly...

I'm completely content with 200hp NA. I think it will be a blast to drive much like the s2000 and Miata are known to be. Look how infrequently you see turbo'd s2000's, seems like most owners are more than happy with NA.

I agree that 200hp is comparatively low, at least when weighed against other offerings. In a perfect world I would love something a bit closer to the s2000. 225 - 250hp would be amazing. Sadly I doubt we'll see anything near that even with a few thousand in bolt on mods.

Is forced induction the answer? maybe for some, I will live happily with 200hp and whatever I can squeeze out with I/H/E + tune. As much as a sub 6 or even near 5 sec 0 - 60 sounds great, It won't will benefit me enough to justify the expense.

With a factory turbo/supercharger I would expect this car's MSRP to jump 2 - 4k which would hurt my chance's with it since I want a well equipped model and over 30k is too much for me to justify on a car with my income level.

Yes 200 PS is little, so I'll be getting 250 PS with NA mods, surely an engine kit. But kick-ass turbo would also be nice, only there are other cars for this, and the "first" car is going to be it. I don't see the AS1 being the only car in ones garage, that is why it is important for it to be affordable.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Fair enough.

My turbo experience comes from A70 Supras. The most responsive being a 1JZGTE powered twin turbo JDM car with opened up intake and exhaust, as well as parasitic (power-steering) and inertial (clutch, driveshaft) reductions. It is basically a short-stroke 2JZGTE (for those that don't know) and the factory twins are each about the size of a small hamster with ceramic wheels. It was responsive as hell, but there was still a split second of lag.

i dont think youre talking about turbo lag

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think youre talking about turbo lag

Depends on the definition of 'lag'. The delay between pressing the throttle and getting the power you want/expect. It's from needing the exhaust gas to spool the turbos to their rpm, then for the compressor to pressurize the intake side.

So even at mid-high rpm, there is still a delay between going full throttle and getting full boost.

This is something that a lot of people who just say "But the BMW 335 makes full boost at just over idle!" don't seem to fully understand.

[Homemade WRX]

yes, it's called transient response (often mistakenly called 'lag') and it does decrease with engine RPM...as well as other changes that can be made. You get the same effect when you put larger cams on an NA engine or a large plenum intake manifold (for power).

Response isn't shown on a typical dynograph but 'lag' is.

You may also want to check out some newer turbo tech. Both turbine and compressor 'response' technology have made large gains since Toyota use to poke around with turbos. Nothing you can do about gas pressurizing, as it will always be there, but reductions in weight and geometry gains make for spool up at lower exhaust pressure = faster spool up on the compressor = shorter transient response. The better geometry also means that they flow more for the same given transient response or vice versa.

[Dimman]

For the time, those two tiny ceramic turbos were probably the best responding factory turbo system out there. I would have loved to be able to put some same-sized, better flowing, more efficient, variable geometry, titanium-alumide turbines on it.

Le sigh...

[miata]

I like naturally aspirated engines because turbo will die when the car is out of warranty. All snails die. I would have been happier with a 1.8L. 200hp engine.

[duffman13]

Scooby says they could see it revving to 9k with proper valve springs.

If that's the case, gimme some cams and valvesprings and I'll take it that way. I'm driving a VTEC motor now, I don't touch anything below 5k when I'm driving hard anyway.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by duffman13

Scooby says they could see it revving to 9k with proper valve springs.

If that's the case, gimme some cams and valvesprings and I'll take it that way. I'm driving a VTEC motor now, I don't touch anything below 5k when I'm driving hard anyway.

I would be surprised if the intake ports would flow above the stock red line. If you port it out there is a potential for driveability issues due to a lack of charge motion and combustion instability. It's hard to say for sure though, so somebody will have to get in there and try.