Do we really want a Turbo BRZ? I'm going to say no. - Page 5 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

tranzformer · 12-25-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

i take it that you are just ignoring your earlier edit stating 2l n/a vs 2l turbo. even if we could just use that motor, we dont know if that would be cheaper than just using a turbo

Read what I quoted before you edited your comment: "i dont see how they would affordably crank out more hp from this car without the use of a turbo.". You said out of the car not the engine. Throw in a FA25 and you get more power out of the car without use of a turbo.

Yes a 2.0T will provide more power than a 2.0 NA. But a 2.0T will also cost more. So for a base BRZ do you want a 2.0T that costs more or a 2.0 that costs less but provides less power (yes we all know base engine is going to be a NA engine)? For the BRZ STI do you want a 1.6T/2.0T or a NA 2.5L? In that case I will still take the NA.

fatoni · 12-25-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Read what I quoted before you edited your comment: "i dont see how they would affordably crank out more hp from this car without the use of a turbo.". You said out of the car not the engine. Throw in a FA25 and you get more power out of the car without use of a turbo.

Yes a 2.0T will provide more power than a 2.0 NA. But a 2.0T will also cost more. So for a base BRZ do you want a 2.0T that costs more or a 2.0 that costs less but provides less power (yes we all know base engine is going to be a NA engine)? For the BRZ STI do you want a 1.6T/2.0T or a NA 2.5L? In that case I will still take the NA.

i dont know where to crank out horespower other than the motor so i think that motor and car are fairly interchangeable.

throw in a 2.5 and you have a whole new set of issues and costs. of course a lower hp n/a motor will be cheaper but if my first post i said hp for hp. its not a matter of what i want, i just think that turbo for the potential brz sti makes the most sense as i believe that its probably the most efficient move from the n/a motor we have when cost and power are concerned.

tranzformer · 12-25-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think maybe we have a different set of circumstances were talking about. i dont see how they would affordably crank out more hp from this car without the use of a turbo. i think with n/a you just run into diminishing returns way too fast. i know it may be extreme but the evo puts out like 290 from 2 liters. what is the fastest 2 liter without the help of forced induction and how much does it cost?
i really dont want a turbo car either but i just dont like to judge a car by its means instead of the end. my msp is more responsive than my miata

Hard to tell how much power Subaru/Toyota left on the table with the FA20. But the JDM F20C put out 247hp. Not sure of another 2L that is better than that NA. I doubt Subaru will be able to massage that out of a boxer.

Let's say Subaru has a FA16/FA20 turbo that puts out 260-280hp vs a NA FA25 with 250-260hp. I would be willing to leave a few hp on the table to get a NA engine in the STI. If I ever felt I needed more torques I would consider a supercharger.

fatoni · 12-25-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Hard to tell how much power Subaru/Toyota left on the table with the FA20. But the JDM F20C put out 247hp. Not sure of another 2L that is better than that NA. I doubt Subaru will be able to massage that out of a boxer.

Let's say Subaru has a FA16/FA20 turbo that puts out 260-280hp vs a NA FA25 with 250-260hp. I would be willing to leave a few hp on the table to get a NA engine in the STI. If I ever felt I needed more torques I would consider a supercharger.

yeah, thats a gray area and with numbers like that i could see it going either way although i wonder what current smog regulations would do to a number like that. also, i think that turbos have become pretty efficient and responsive. either way i dont think its a bad time to be a car enthusiast

Kostamojen · 12-25-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyNate

What reliabillity issues do you speak of?

I worked at a Subaru dealer for almost 5 years...

I have no interest in a Turbo motor after that. I'd rather have the H6 and call it a day.

tranzformer · 12-25-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I worked at a Subaru dealer for almost 5 years...

I have no interest in a Turbo motor after that. I'd rather have the H6 and call it a day.

Now the H6 would be interesting if it would fit but it would probably throw off the handling a bit since it couldn't be mounted as far back.

fatoni · 12-25-2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I worked at a Subaru dealer for almost 5 years...

I have no interest in a Turbo motor after that. I'd rather have the H6 and call it a day.

you have to admit that you cant know if that is because of the turbo and not because of the demographic buying the cars or even the boxer design

tranzformer · 12-25-2011, 05:38 PM

Also hard to tell how much of it was base on abuse/neglect or returning a modded car back to stock for warranty work.

himbo · 12-25-2011, 06:13 PM

I have no interest is seeing a turbo here. Seems like the antithesis of the car's mission. Maybe a low-boost supercharger, but frankly, I'm happy just to get a few more horses out of the motor, and call it a day. Maybe a crank pully, or light weight flywheel, and an intake. I feel like this is a car that should have great induction noise over exhaust...

Oh, and maybe tuning to support an 8k redline

MrVito · 12-25-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himbo

I have no interest is seeing a turbo here. Seems like the antithesis of the car's mission. Maybe a low-boost supercharger, but frankly, I'm happy just to get a few more horses out of the motor, and call it a day. Maybe a crank pully, or light weight flywheel, and an intake. I feel like this is a car that should have great induction noise over exhaust...

Oh, and maybe tuning to support an 8k redline

Could be interesting, though in it's current state of tune and current cams, power output is dropping off after 7000 rpms, so a modified cam profile would be required there. Possibly different springs and retainers to support it, and hopefully the rotating assembly has been tested to be stable at that speed. Then you might see some relevant gains above 7k.

subatoy · 12-25-2011, 08:05 PM

I WANT TORQUE!
200hp is perfectly fine but this has the same torque as the RSX-type SLOW which make em feel slow as hell.
SO unless you find another magical way to give me torque other
than forced induction, this car needs a turbo.
A factory turbo also gives you the potential to mod for little money.

so yes this car needs FI.
I can easily pay $5k more for that factory option with warranty
so bring it!

chulooz · 12-25-2011, 08:35 PM

Just make the turbo engine an option, N/A guys can have their performance wants and the turbo guys can get their performance desires.

MrVito · 12-25-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chulooz

Just make the turbo engine an option, N/A guys can have their performance wants and the turbo guys can get their performance desires.

subatoy · 12-25-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chulooz

Just make the turbo engine an option, N/A guys can have their performance wants and the turbo guys can get their performance desires.

EXACTLY!
simple as that.

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12-25-2011, 05:38 PM	#64
tranzformer Delights in pure handling Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: Zoom Zoom Location: KS Posts: 4,854 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Also hard to tell how much of it was base on abuse/neglect or returning a modded car back to stock for warranty work.

12-25-2011, 06:13 PM	#65
himbo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Drives: Lightening Red BRZ Ltd. Location: North Jersey Mutha Luva!!! Posts: 226 Thanks: 67 Thanked 95 Times in 44 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I have no interest is seeing a turbo here. Seems like the antithesis of the car's mission. Maybe a low-boost supercharger, but frankly, I'm happy just to get a few more horses out of the motor, and call it a day. Maybe a crank pully, or light weight flywheel, and an intake. I feel like this is a car that should have great induction noise over exhaust... Oh, and maybe tuning to support an 8k redline

12-25-2011, 08:05 PM	#67
subatoy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Drives: subatoy Location: Atlanta Posts: 667 Thanks: 32 Thanked 198 Times in 106 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I WANT TORQUE! 200hp is perfectly fine but this has the same torque as the RSX-type SLOW which make em feel slow as hell. SO unless you find another magical way to give me torque other than forced induction, this car needs a turbo. A factory turbo also gives you the potential to mod for little money. so yes this car needs FI. I can easily pay $5k more for that factory option with warranty so bring it!

12-25-2011, 08:35 PM	#68
chulooz Registered you sir Join Date: Feb 2010 Drives: 99 impreza coupe Location: DC / CT Posts: 1,666 Thanks: 259 Thanked 380 Times in 207 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Just make the turbo engine an option, N/A guys can have their performance wants and the turbo guys can get their performance desires.

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