Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Frs300]

Originally Posted by fenton

Its kinda like that partial throttle boost you guys are talking about except on a smaller scale..... either way we are making progress on something that is already proving itself to be a serious competitor. Just look at this compared to the innovative, avo or fullblown kits that have been posted this week, they are all making about 200 hp.

the fullblown kit is only making 200hp?

[NoFear99]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

At this time he has two kits. The smaller one is $1390 (VW). The larger is $1650 (Silverado). Anyone hoping for under a grand is dreaming.
This kit provides performance that is pretty close to a belt driven supercharger and is probably going to be about half the cost. It does not require a flash and is removable without a trace in a half hour for inspections and dealer visits. Even at $1800 it would be a deal, assuming the reliability is there.

Do you price a kit because of the results numbers it provide or you price a kit regardless how much cost the hardware supplied in this kit ???

In this case, it look like you say the supercharged kit are selling for 3000$-4000$ to pass from 170whp to 225-240whp.

So if this electric supercharged make your car pass from 170whp to 200whp, you get half the hp of the supercharged kit so I will sell my kit half their price 1500$ ?

Or

- A cold side turbo charger housing with a 3" inlet like a 20G turbo / tdo6/h is worth 200$ alone.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kinugawa-Mit...#ht_1595wt_907
- 3 x 18Ahr SLA batteries is worth another 300$.
http://www.mrpositive.co.nz/synergy-...-acid-battery/
- A brushless motor 3500 watts is worth 200$-250$ ???
- TQ-4kW24V controller and charger worth another 250$ ???
- In cab volt meter with arming switch worth 50$-75$ ???

Total : 1 000$-1 100$

[SloS14]

Originally Posted by Frs300

the fullblown kit is only making 200hp?

Something tells me this is a facetious question.

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

If thus comes in btwn 1300 - 1650, its a no-brainer. 500 -1000 is pipe smoking.

I agree under a $1000 is probably not practical, but on the flip side I think once you get over a thousand especially for a newer technology from a small company the demand is going to drop sharply.

As much as I want to see this succeed I worry about the business model.

Has there been any long term testing? $1500 might be okay, but depending on how fast it burns through the motor/batteries that price seems less reasonable.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Frs300

the fullblown kit is only making 200hp?

Of course they can make more but people have posted the dyno's with the base tune and it isnt all gravy.

The other kits will all be 3 times the price of this kit, this is a easy in, easy out power adder that anyone can do.
500-1000 is definetly a pipe dream, im sure the people that have started building their own kits can tell us how much they have already spent on parts.

Rob is building this because he loves proving people wrong, he isn't trying to make money hand over fist.

Some people that have installed turbo's have already blown their motor(due to tune/part failure - not the engine), not sure who it was but i read a couple threads.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37393

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by NoFear99

Do you price a kit because of the results numbers it provide or you price a kit regardless how much cost the hardware supplied in this kit ???

In this case, it look like you say the supercharged kit are selling for 3000$-4000$ to pass from 170whp to 225-240whp.

So if this electric supercharged make your car pass from 170whp to 200whp, you get half the hp of the supercharged kit so I will sell my kit half their price 1500$ ???

No, you price a kit by figuring out what it will cost you to produce. Then you determine how much profit you would like to see over the production run of the product. You try to figure a balance between price and volume of sales that will sell sufficient unit numbers and clear enough per unit that you will reach the target profit. It's a balancing act. This is not going to be a huge volume seller so the profit per unit has to be higher. On the other hand, you don't want to price it too high and scare off customers. It's a business, not a charitable foundation.

I based my guess on pricing based on similar products he is already selling and decided that with all the advantage it has, it would be worth that price to me unless I decide to say "to hell with the warranty" and go balls out, which I already have clearance from the wife to do. (God I love that woman!).

[fenton]

Originally Posted by NoFear99

Do you price a kit because of the results numbers it provide or you price a kit regardless how much cost the hardware supplied in this kit ???

In this case, it look like you say the supercharged kit are selling for 3000$-4000$ to pass from 170whp to 225-240whp.

So if this electric supercharged make your car pass from 170whp to 200whp, you get half the hp of the supercharged kit so I will sell my kit half their price 1500$ ???

In the end you have to price it to the parts as well as the R&D that goes into the project.

Just because this kit makes the same HP as the innovative or the avo kit with a base tune does not mean it is going to cost 4000 dollars, nor should it as it is a ON DEMAND system.

Power when you need it.

For the perfomance we are going to get out of this final kit the price is going to be very attrictive. Remember that Rob isnt done here yet.

Install in 30 minutes, uninstall in 5 minutes for dealer visits, completely undetectable once removed..... HELL YES! :happy0180:

As for those asking about reliability.... this kit has been on their golf for over 30,000km and i dont even know how long Rob has had it on his truck.

As for me i installed this about a month ago and have put over 3000km on it.

I have done many 0-60 and i drive my car hard every day.

I think we are up to about 20 dyno pulls, doing 4 or 5 in a row results in the MOST hp to the wheels as the battery's and controller get up to temp!

The addition of the DRAG REDUCTION system is perfect and helps to improve everyday driving by giving you a little more more in the dip as well as increased throttle response above 4000 rpm.

All in all i LOVE this kit, especially considering the investment in time to install.... basically nothing!

[NoFear99]

I'm just trying to figure out how much parts value are involved to create this wonderful kit.

- A cold side turbo charger housing with a 3" inlet like a 20G turbo / tdo6/h is worth 200$ alone.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kinugawa-Mit...#ht_1595wt_907

- 3 x 18Ahr SLA batteries is worth another 300$.
http://www.mrpositive.co.nz/synergy-...-acid-battery/

- A brushless motor 3500 watts is worth 200$-250$ ???

- TQ-4kW24V controller and charger worth another 250$ ???

- In cab volt meter with arming switch worth 50$-75$ ???

Total parts value : 1 000$-1 100$

[fenton]

Originally Posted by NoFear99

I would buy one for sure if it was between 600$ and 1 200$.

But if it is between 1250$ and 1500$ I'll pass my turn.

Is it possible to install this kit with an aftermarket intake like the Afe Takeda intake box ???

Aftermarket will only work if it connects up to the exact spot the stock box connects to.

That being said, something could be fabbed up but as soon you relocate that MAF say goodbye to your drive ability without rescaling and tuning the car 100%

The stock intake works perfect and the only thing that you would get out of a Cold Air intake would be more sound.

[Frs300]

Originally Posted by fenton

Of course they can make more but people have posted the dyno's with the base tune and it isnt all gravy.

The other kits will all be 3 times the price of this kit, this is a easy in, easy out power adder that anyone can do.
500-1000 is definetly a pipe dream, im sure the people that have started building their own kits can tell us how much they have already spent on parts.

Rob is building this because he loves proving people wrong, he isn't trying to make money hand over fist.

Some people that have installed turbo's have already blown their motor(due to tune/part failure - not the engine), not sure who it was but i read a couple threads.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37393

you picked a dyno graph where he has a boost leak. that is nowhere near accurate

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by NoFear99

I'm just trying to figure out how much parts value are involved to create this wonderful kit.

- A cold side turbo charger housing with a 3" inlet like a 20G turbo / tdo6/h is worth 200$ alone.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kinugawa-Mit...#ht_1595wt_907

- 3 x 18Ahr SLA batteries is worth another 300$.
http://www.mrpositive.co.nz/synergy-...-acid-battery/

- A brushless motor 3500 watts is worth 200$-250$ ???

- TQ-4kW24V controller and charger worth another 250$ ???

- In cab volt meter with arming switch worth 50$-75$ ???

Total parts value : 1 000$-1 100$

A detailed discussion of this would be better over on the Open source thread.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41148

However I will tell you as I'm trying to build my own with as many off the shelf parts as possible you're numbers are probably a little high if you really work to find the best deals on parts and possible volume discounts.

You're not taking however into account the custom parts that need to be made which even if you're doing it in house the cost in work hours is high. So I agree $1000 in total production costs may not be far off. add in some for profit and figure a relitively low sales volume $1500 seems reasonable to me.

Is it worth it at that price? That's more of a personal decision.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by NoFear99

I'm just trying to figure out how much parts value are involved to create this wonderful kit.

- A cold side turbo charger housing with a 3" inlet like a 20G turbo / tdo6/h is worth $200 alone.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kinugawa-Mit...#ht_1595wt_907

- 3 x 18Ahr SLA batteries is worth another $300.
http://www.mrpositive.co.nz/synergy-...-acid-battery/

- A brushless motor 3500 watts is worth $200-$250 ???

- TQ-4kW24V controller and charger worth another $250 ???

- In cab volt meter with arming switch worth $50-$75 ???

Total parts value : $1000-$1100

As has already been pointed out, there is also development cost to be recouped. That motor is not off the shelf. It's a third generation redesign that had to be paid for. You have no clue how much of his own money Rob might have in this and it's none of your business anyway. He is running a business to hopefully make a couple of bucks. All you need to worry about is if you think the total package is worth the price. If you don't, don't buy it. If you think you can do a better job or as good a job for less money yourself, go for it. Your general tone comes across as someone trying to piss in Rob's Cheerios by finding ways to steer people away from this idea.
At first we had the guys claiming it could never work. Now that it obviously does, you start trying to discredit it by making him look greedy.
As I said before, it's a business, not a charity.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Frs300

you picked a dyno graph where he has a boost leak. that is nowhere near accurate

Fair enough i was just trying to find some of the lower ones and that was posted. I was reading though after you posted and apparently fuel issues too or something. I guess that's one of the problems with the full kits, alot of variables go into it. Good thing is there hasn't been too many blown motors like we see in the STI's once they get up to 400whp.

Nothing wrong with full FI, i praise the people that have the money/time to do it full out, i unfortunately do not have the means.

[Wild Weasel]

And hey... he's gotta cover the cost of sending test units out to a hack like me. I'm pretty sure I've cost him a couple hundred in shipping costs now. Batteries ain't light, yo!

I think at the end of the day, the prices are pretty reasonable. And the more people that buy them and install them and post up "Holy crap! Those guys were right! This is fun!", the more people will realize that it's not a lot for what you're getting.