Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[kavanagh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I would call it uncertainty. I've had the fortune of having access to drivers that are significantly faster than I am throughout the years, so sitting with them in my car, or a similarly prepared car, allowed me to "feel the limit" of grip. This also led to a "oh if he can do it then I should be able to too" mentality, which wasn't the best one to have, but it certainly hustled my driving along.

This is exactly how I am best able to push myself, both in the car and on the bike. If I'm in the car with someone else driving, and they can make it dance, then I know the car can do it, I just need my body to go through the right motions to emulate that - which is fun as hell.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

This is exactly how I am best able to push myself, both in the car and on the bike. If I'm in the car with someone else driving, and they can make it dance, then I know the car can do it, I just need my body to go through the right motions to emulate that - which is fun as hell.

I remember the first time I went into T2 at WSIR flat in my s2k, and then sawed the whole way through the turn, because that's what Charles Ng had done.

Then other S2k drivers looked at me like I was insane when I was trying to explain that to them... little did I know how much risk I was actually taking at the time.

[troek]

@Porsche
Great stuff! yeah your pretty much dead on the money, i was zero throttle around that turn with no weight on my back wheels. i turned in later than usually, which scared me into not getting back on the power.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I would call it uncertainty. I've had the fortune of having access to drivers that are significantly faster than I am throughout the years, so sitting with them in my car, or a similarly prepared car, allowed me to "feel the limit" of grip. This also led to a "oh if he can do it then I should be able to too" mentality, which wasn't the best one to have, but it certainly hustled my driving along.

I think 7thgear is describing fear, pure and simple. Fear that if the car starts to get away from him at 100 MPH in T2 at Mosport, he's going to follow all those black streaks off the track that others have already laid down. It sounds like a healthy response. If you're at or over your limit, and the consequences of getting it wrong are severe, it's a natural response. The trick is to get to the point where you've slowed things down at that speed and you know that you'll catch any movement before it bites you. That's what we're all working on, I think, or hope anyway.

If I had gotten the notion into my head that what the pros I've had in my car could do with it I ought to be able to do with it, too, it wouldn't have gone very well. That's me, though: my car control skills are average at best, and I've been made aware of it on numerous occasions. Those guys are operating in another universe - given their talent and the many thousands of hours they've spent perfecting their craft (Pobst, O'Connell - tens of thousands?), that's no surprise.

[THEmailman]

Sorry that my post is going to take things off the current topic but I have a question on helmets. My SA2005 helmet will be expiring soon and I was curious when the 2015 rating will be coming out. Id like to buy a decent helmet with HANS capability so that a few years from now, when I take things more seriously, I can upgrade without buying a new helmet. Also, do NASA, SCCA, BMWCCA etc racing series require the Snell rating or the FIA? I know some fit both but I just want to try and have a one time purchase and not worry about it for a long while...

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[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I may have to visit a norcal track day to figure out who @Porsche is.

If/when you do come up, let me suggest Thunderhill. It doesn't have the name of Laguna or Sonoma, but it is a very, very nice track. Also with the new extension, being able to run a five mile circuit should be utterly amazing! So many corners to explore! I'm really excited!

Too bad running the five mile version takes my favorite turn (turn 9) off the track though.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by solidONE

While I'm yet to be able to see all those things, that was my assessment of Mike's driving as well after riding with him on my second track day with this car. It was hard for me to pick anything up from the experience because the huge gap between what he's doing with the car and what I'm able to. Through corners I felt the rear end loosing grip.... but it didn't. hard to describe the sensation, nevermind replicating it with myself piloting. I'd suggest Mike to start out from 6/10th (if not slower) with people riding then ramp up SLOWLY in pace, so us mere mortals can actually pick something up besides "shit he is fast" from those ride alongs.

You have to also be aware of the tires when you are in an advanced driver's car. Loss of cohesion feels quite a bit different on hot slicks than it does on cold or only warm street tires.

Given what you said I suspect you might not have gotten your rear tires greasy yet. It is a strange sensation the first time. That or I could have too much code on the brain and not be thinking straight.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by kavanagh

This is exactly how I am best able to push myself, both in the car and on the bike. If I'm in the car with someone else driving, and they can make it dance, then I know the car can do it, I just need my body to go through the right motions to emulate that - which is fun as hell.

Haha I'm the same way. I love ride-alongs with instructors and experienced drivers because I pick up a lot from watching them drive and emulating.

But that reminds me, one time I nearly went four-wheels off trying to emulate a line that I saw an instructor take through a corkscrew corner. What I didn't realize is he took a preceding corner a little bit slower, leading to a slower entry speed into the corkscrew and allowing him to take the line that he did. I hadn't paid attention to how he set it up the turn before. Luckily it felt wrong and I immediately hit the brakes before things got out of control.

I guess the lesson I took from that is, make sure you know exactly what someone else doing before attempting something that feels impossible.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I may have to visit a norcal track day to figure out who @Porsche is.

That would only work if he actually lived in norcal.

Originally Posted by THEmailman

Id like to buy a decent helmet with HANS capability so that a few years from now, when I take things more seriously, I can upgrade without buying a new helmet.

I thought the same thing until I realized that you can drill and place HANS posts into a helmet on your own. The devices come with posts for you install. I placed posts onto my SA2010 HJC-AR10, and now use a HANS with my other car that has harnesses.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Haha I'm the same way. I love ride-alongs with instructors and experienced drivers because I pick up a lot from watching them drive and emulating.

But that reminds me, one time I nearly went four-wheels off trying to emulate a line that I saw an instructor take through a corkscrew corner. What I didn't realize is he took a preceding corner a little bit slower, leading to a slower entry speed into the corkscrew and allowing him to take the line that he did. I hadn't paid attention to how he set it up the turn before. Luckily it felt wrong and I immediately hit the brakes before things got out of control.

I guess the lesson I took from that is, make sure you know exactly what someone else doing before attempting something that feels impossible.

I also love getting ride alongs; I always say it is so I can see more of how other people manage (and it is), but truth be told, being in a race-prepped RX-7 or Miata is just plain fun!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

That would only work if he actually lived in norcal.

Fack

[juliog]

Gotta be Mark Webber then.


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[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by juliog

Gotta be Mark Webber then.

He did compliment Stiglet's accent... LOL

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by THEmailman

Sorry that my post is going to take things off the current topic but I have a question on helmets. My SA2005 helmet will be expiring soon and I was curious when the 2015 rating will be coming out. Id like to buy a decent helmet with HANS capability so that a few years from now, when I take things more seriously, I can upgrade without buying a new helmet. Also, do NASA, SCCA, BMWCCA etc racing series require the Snell rating or the FIA? I know some fit both but I just want to try and have a one time purchase and not worry about it for a long while...

I'm not sure when the helmets with 2015 stickers are coming out. You could try HMS Motorsports at 888-467-3269 - they'll know the date; or, if it's too early, they'll have a good idea of when the date will be known.

Current HPDE requirements that I'm aware of are:

NASA - Snell SA2005 or M2005

BMWCCA - Snell SA2005 or M2005 (this is my local club's requirement; I'm not sure national has a requirement that applies to all the clubs, but if they do I'd guess this is it).

Race requirements:

NASA - Snell SA2005 or FIA 8860-2004 or SFI 31.1/2005

BMWCCA - Snell SA2005 or FIA 8860 or SFI 31.1 (if purchased 1/1/2005 or newer); SFI 31.1a or SFI 31.2a (if purchased 12/31/2004 or earlier)

SCCA - Snell SA2005 or Snell SAH2010 or FIA 8860-2004 or SFI 31.1/2005 or British Standards Institute BS6658-85 Type A/FR.

These are the minimums.