Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

In the carousel I entered and held a pretty consistent 75mph, with any application of throttle causing the rear end to feel floaty.

The kink could be taken at 85-86, anything above that made the car squirrely at exit; especially under throttle.

Cold pressures were at 35 square to start the day, and later I dropped them to about 34/32 f/r and then even later to about 32/30.

I'm interested to see what you guys come up with for an explanation. Going through there 15 mph faster on OEM tires than you are on Rivals is a MASSIVE difference. That just makes no sense to me at all. Did you have anyone else drive your car through there?

[Blue Gt]

Hi Mike, last weekend I ran the first Autox event with coil-overs on the FR-S. The car seemed to be more loose and I spun it in the last section. There is a 15 mm difference in the amount of left and right rear droop? I tried to adjust the right rear strut length (TEIN Street-Flex) to make them equal but the LCA is binding? Any ideas on what can cause this binding before I tear it all down. Thanks in advance, DP.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Pat

I'm interested to see what you guys come up with for an explanation. Going through there 15 mph faster on OEM tires than you are on Rivals is a MASSIVE difference. That just makes no sense to me at all. Did you have anyone else drive your car through there?

I did not. In retrospect it probably would have been a good idea to let one of the instructors do a few laps.

[redlined600]

Are you sure you have the correct line through the kink? Did the instructor mention anything?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by redlined600

Are you sure you have the correct line through the kink? Did the instructor mention anything?

I wasn't perfect every time, it was my first track day afterall. But I kept pretty consistent, although with some early turn ins. By the end of the 1st day I had a pretty good feel for the line, and stayed consistent through the 2nd day for the most part. Even on the times I got the line pretty much perfect it couldn't take any more speed. The instructors all said I had a good consistent line, despite the occasional early turn ins. But anytime I tried to increase entry speed to the kink, the car just didn't feel right.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

In the carousel I entered and held a pretty consistent 75mph, with any application of throttle causing the rear end to feel floaty.

The kink could be taken at 85-86, anything above that made the car squirrely at exit; especially under throttle.

Cold pressures were at 35 square to start the day, and later I dropped them to about 34/32 f/r and then even later to about 32/30.

I'd need data logs or video to make any more educated guesses.

My guess is that you're just at the limit of your current setup; getting faster from here means learning to throttle steer the car and getting comfortable with the rear being loose.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Blue Gt

Hi Mike, last weekend I ran the first Autox event with coil-overs on the FR-S. The car seemed to be more loose and I spun it in the last section. There is a 15 mm difference in the amount of left and right rear droop? I tried to adjust the right rear strut length (TEIN Street-Flex) to make them equal but the LCA is binding? Any ideas on what can cause this binding before I tear it all down. Thanks in advance, DP.

What do you mean your LCA is binding?

Do you have aftermarket LCAs? Pics of your setup?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'd need data logs or video to make any more educated guesses.

My guess is that you're just at the limit of your current setup; getting faster from here means learning to throttle steer the car and getting comfortable with the rear being loose.

Unfortunately I was having GoPro issues, so no video. :/

I'd be surprised if I was already hitting the limits of my setup. I know I've got a lot to learn still. I also found it curious that I'd hit the limits of the car before my buddy did on the stock tires. He's also in a BRZ with ST coilovers though, so perhaps that had something to do with him being able to hit higher speeds through the kink.

I know the stock spring rates are tuned to give the car a more loose rear end, and dropping all the weight with the muffler delete and trunk junk (spare, jack, and tools) probably doesn't help that any. That's an additional 54lbs out of the rear.

Perhaps it's time to look for a suspension setup that would give the car more neutral handling.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

I'd be surprised if I was already hitting the limits of my setup. I know I've got a lot to learn still. I also found it curious that I'd hit the limits of the car before my buddy did on the stock tires. He's also in a BRZ with ST coilovers though, so perhaps that had something to do with him being able to hit higher speeds through the kink.

I know the stock spring rates are tuned to give the car a more loose rear end, [...]
Perhaps it's time to look for a suspension setup that would give the car more neutral handling.

How much noise were the tires making? Are you positive you were already reaching the limits of grip or was it your first time toeing the line at those speeds and it's possible that there's another 1/10th of capability left in the car you're not accessing?

Sorry, I just find it hard to believe that with significantly better grip (Rivals to Primacy's) you're lagging that far behind in the same section, my money is on either there's more grip that you weren't using or your tires were worn out before you got there. Check out how much tire noise CSG Mike gets on this session. Now I'm not advocating you drift every corner, only that there may be more grip than you think, I am working on stepping up to that limit as well, finding that limit is not easy.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrMAudOAEF8"]Buttonwillow 13CW CSG spec Tein SRC testing with NorCal 86CUP - YouTube[/ame]


I'm on stock springs/dampers as well and I've been fighting understeer understeer understeer, all oversteer has been driver induced (and a good chunk of understeer as well). Camber works wonders on this car and may be something your buddy also has a big advantage on you with coilovers, I'm up to running about -3.0 degrees camber autocrossing up front (no adjustment in the rear yet, @ ~-1.4 degrees) and I'll be trying more soon.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Wheel speed sesnsors

Holy... you can look at all that kind of stuff? Seems like a good way to make my head explode with data.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

How much noise were the tires making? Are you positive you were already reaching the limits of grip or was it your first time toeing the line at those speeds and it's possible that there's another 1/10th of capability left in the car you're not accessing?

Sorry, I just find it hard to believe that with significantly better grip (Rivals to Primacy's) you're lagging that far behind in the same section, my money is on either there's more grip that you weren't using or your tires were worn out before you got there. Check out how much tire noise CSG Mike gets on this session. Now I'm not advocating you drift every corner, only that there may be more grip than you think, I am working on stepping up to that limit as well, finding that limit is not easy.

I'm on stock springs/dampers as well and I've been fighting understeer understeer understeer, all oversteer has been driver induced (and a good chunk of understeer as well). Camber works wonders on this car and may be something your buddy also has a big advantage on you with coilovers, I'm up to running about -3.0 degrees camber autocrossing up front (no adjustment in the rear yet, @ ~-1.4 degrees) and I'll be trying more soon.

I think it may be a variety of factors. The tires are pretty warn to begin with, it was a used set I picked up last minute for the autox season, and Rivals actually tend to perform better with slipangle. That being said, because it was my first track event, I probably wasn't pushing it as hard as I could have been either. I wasn't letting it drift too much, and I could tell the instructors wouldn't be comfortable with someone so green pushing a car like that at those speeds in a corner. Like I said, I was also running it just in VSC Sport Mode. So I wonder if the aids stepping in had an affect on how the car felt too.

I plan to get a fresh set of tires on it for next year. I'll probably do my first track day next season and see how it feels with different tires. From there assess what to do next. I'm sure the majority of my problems are driver input. lol

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

The tires are pretty warn to begin with, it was a used set I picked up last minute for the autox season, and Rivals actually tend to perform better with slipangle.

I plan to get a fresh set of tires on it for next year. I'll probably do my first track day next season and see how it feels with different tires. From there assess what to do next. I'm sure the majority of my problems are driver input. lol

Fresh tires, VSC off and some confidence should do wonders on closing that 15mph gap. The TC on the 86 is not performance oriented, even in "sport" mode, there's probably a decent chunk of speed there alone.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Did my first track day two weekends ago at Road America. Had a blast, and noticed something interesting.

The car seems to reach the threshold of grip in right turns much faster than in left turns. There were two spots on the track where it was most noticeable.

1. Going through the Carousel (long right sweeper) the rear end would start to get floaty from mid-corner to exit if my speed was too high or I started to apply throttle. Could really only start to get into the throttle once I was pretty much out of the corner completely. (Not saying I'm complaining about not being able to mash the throttle. I couldn't start to apply steady throttle through corner exit)

2. I couldn't go through the Kink any faster than about 85mph. Anytime I entered at 90+ it would get squirrely on the exit, and I wasn't lifting or giving jerky steering inputs. That was with applying even throttle through the turn and getting back on it at the exit. I'm on a fairly used, but still good, set of last year's Rivals; and by comparison my buddy was able to take the same turn at 100mph on stock tires in his BRZ. (Of course you could argue that he's just a better driver than me, which is likely true, but doesn't seem to be the source of this probelm)

The Kink at Road America is a "scary" corner, many group's prefer to run the motorcycle bend as the Kink is sort of a blind corner with walls on both sides that can cause very very serious accidents. This is one of those Mental corners.

What is the difference in cars? My car on stock tires is actually impressive if you are easy with the right foot, but I have a bunch of suspension work.

As for the carousel, what letter were you aiming for when going under the sign? What gear were you in, 3rd or 4th? After snagging an instructor I was told to aim for the D, and then stay above the line from the pavement until you start turning deeper for the apex. His biggest piece of advise was smooth on the input and patience while waiting for the right time to turn in deeper for the apex cone.

Here is me at Road America:

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

Holy... you can look at all that kind of stuff? Seems like a good way to make my head explode with data.

Time to get you a AIM Solo DL