follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!

Register and become an FT86Club.com member. You will see fewer ads

User Tag List
go_a_way1

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-21-2013, 04:48 PM   #183
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,562
Thanks: 8,942
Thanked 14,211 Times in 6,854 Posts
Mentioned: 970 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiichiro View Post
Is it a full on track animal or do you street it like that? I'm seeking something between the two I think. How does that much camber feel in straight line at high speed like over hundred?
The car is mixed duty; it has 26k miles on it!

Camber won't affect feel as much as tire itself and toe. A hint of toe-in front/rear will add stability, but isn't ideal for raw grip.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
kiichiro (08-21-2013)
Old 08-21-2013, 05:32 PM   #184
Sonolin
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: SoCal
Posts: 885
Thanks: 1,489
Thanked 289 Times in 176 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Hi Mike, there's an open track event at Willow Springs next month and I was planning on going to this. After reading the first thread, I'm a little concerned with 1) brakes and 2) tune.

Do you recommend I hold off on track days altogether until I can purchase the above items? You mentioned there stock tune "destroys injection collars" is it really that bad?

Was hoping to just try to get some seat time as I've been really itching for a track day but I can't afford any costly mods (>$200) for a few months. I could probably swing a cheap-ish set of brakes but a tune would be a little out of my price range for now.

Thanks
Sonolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 05:47 PM   #185
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,562
Thanks: 8,942
Thanked 14,211 Times in 6,854 Posts
Mentioned: 970 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonolin View Post
Hi Mike, there's an open track event at Willow Springs next month and I was planning on going to this. After reading the first thread, I'm a little concerned with 1) brakes and 2) tune.

Do you recommend I hold off on track days altogether until I can purchase the above items? You mentioned there stock tune "destroys injection collars" is it really that bad?

Was hoping to just try to get some seat time as I've been really itching for a track day but I can't afford any costly mods (>$200) for a few months. I could probably swing a cheap-ish set of brakes but a tune would be a little out of my price range for now.

Thanks
If you're not very experienced, you'll *probably* be okay, but it does eventually cause damage over the long term.

I would highly recommend you get a set of pads to swap on just for the track day.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
Sonolin (08-21-2013)
Old 08-21-2013, 05:59 PM   #186
Sonolin
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: SoCal
Posts: 885
Thanks: 1,489
Thanked 289 Times in 176 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
If you're not very experienced, you'll *probably* be okay, but it does eventually cause damage over the long term.

I would highly recommend you get a set of pads to swap on just for the track day.
OK thanks for the info.

Does a tune prevent the long term damage? Or is this something that Toyota needs to fix?? Also, does it throw a CEL?

After reading more I'm getting more and more concerned about this DI failure.
Sonolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 06:07 PM   #187
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,562
Thanks: 8,942
Thanked 14,211 Times in 6,854 Posts
Mentioned: 970 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonolin View Post
OK thanks for the info.

Does a tune prevent the long term damage? Or is this something that Toyota needs to fix?? Also, does it throw a CEL?

After reading more I'm getting more and more concerned about this DI failure.
Correcting the transient timing table prevents the long term damage, and that correction is currently included in ANY tune that begins with a recent base map released by Ecutek.

Ideally, Toyota/Subaru/Scion need to fix it.

There is no CEL when you get the DI seal failure, only symptoms.

E.g.:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450Pov98STg"]BRZ bad idle + misfire, no CEL, stock engine - YouTube[/ame]
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
Sonolin (08-21-2013)
Old 08-21-2013, 06:57 PM   #188
Sonolin
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: SoCal
Posts: 885
Thanks: 1,489
Thanked 289 Times in 176 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Correcting the transient timing table prevents the long term damage, and that correction is currently included in ANY tune that begins with a recent base map released by Ecutek.

Ideally, Toyota/Subaru/Scion need to fix it.

There is no CEL when you get the DI seal failure, only symptoms.

E.g.:
Scary, thank you for the info. Happy to hear a tune will fix.
Sonolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #189
BRZ NA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: WR blue
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 302
Thanks: 39
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
What's the best wheels /tires set up for stock brz for track used? 255/40/17 or may be 235/40/18?(will use coilover later)
BRZ NA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 11:12 AM   #190
448hpsti
In Test:Oil Fed SC
 
448hpsti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: Vortech Prototype Test Car
Location: Hotter than where you are
Posts: 355
Thanks: 156
Thanked 142 Times in 89 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Flashing cel under wot is caused by what?
448hpsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 01:14 PM   #191
Accurate Race Shop
Senior Member
 
Accurate Race Shop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Scion FR-S
Location: Davison, MI
Posts: 2,315
Thanks: 400
Thanked 397 Times in 310 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 448hpsti View Post
Flashing cel under wot is caused by what?
This happened in my legacy and it was from overheating.
Accurate Race Shop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 01:21 PM   #192
torqdork
Senior Member
 
torqdork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Drives: RV-7
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,818
Thanks: 1,042
Thanked 893 Times in 562 Posts
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Mike, I read every post but still aren't sure. Are the newer (post 02/13 production I think) ECU cars still having DI issues?

Also, about trail braking. Every HPDE instructor I've had including two this year says to complete all braking in a straight line before corner entry. Maybe it's a CYA thing so they don't need to explain why I spun trail braking when I tried it solo. But really, what's to be gained trail braking? Is it a speed advantage or ability to rotate? How long should braking be carried into the corner? When should it be avoided (like an off-camber corner or rain)?. Isn't slow in fast out the safer, more predictable, repeatable way to lower lap times?
torqdork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 01:52 PM   #193
BRZ NA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: WR blue
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 302
Thanks: 39
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by track_warrior View Post
Yeah you can definitely hear it in my car if you pay attention in the video:

Doesn't seems like u get understeer due to the big wing at the back?
BRZ NA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 12:27 AM   #194
Pabloc
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: BRZ Ltd WRB, MT6; '91 M5; '89 911
Location: Spokanistan
Posts: 27
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Spring Rates - Noob Question:

Some springs are rated at 8k, 10k, 14k, etc.

Others are rated at Lbs/in (ie -RCE Yellows)

What gives?
How does one convert to the other?
Pabloc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 12:40 AM   #195
KKaWing
Senior Member
 
KKaWing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: Nissan Versa
Location: T.O.
Posts: 147
Thanks: 30
Thanked 91 Times in 51 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pabloc View Post
Spring Rates - Noob Question:

Some springs are rated at 8k, 10k, 14k, etc.

Others are rated at Lbs/in (ie -RCE Yellows)

What gives?
How does one convert to the other?
Use this:

http://www.hraefn.net/projects/spring_rates.php
KKaWing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 08:50 AM   #196
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,671
Thanks: 1,437
Thanked 4,011 Times in 2,097 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by torqdork View Post
Also, about trail braking. Every HPDE instructor I've had including two this year says to complete all braking in a straight line before corner entry. Maybe it's a CYA thing so they don't need to explain why I spun trail braking when I tried it solo. But really, what's to be gained trail braking? Is it a speed advantage or ability to rotate? How long should braking be carried into the corner? When should it be avoided (like an off-camber corner or rain)?. Isn't slow in fast out the safer, more predictable, repeatable way to lower lap times?
It is almost impossible to drive a car anywhere near its limits "braking only in a straight line". This type of advice or instruction is totally counterproductive and slows down the learning process. As a newb driver years ago, I didn't get anywhere my first track day until I quit trying to "brake only in a straight line".

It is much much easier to gradually trade braking for cornering than to get totally off the brakes and then try to turn in. The car just wants to push. Very awkward, very unnecessary.

Trail braking is NOT an "advanced technique"! As an instructor, I often have to reteach beginning drivers to get them over the brainwashing they've received about how to enter a corner.
At a ZCar convention a few years back, I was asked to go out on the autoX course with a friend's wife who was having a hard time. At the very first corner, which she entered just fine, she apologized for not "braking in a straight line"! I told her she was doing fine, not to worry about it. I did practically nothing else, and she was 2 seconds faster and had a helluva lot more fun driving the course, vs. being forced to "brake only in a straight line" which her previous two instructors had totally insisted on.

Trail-braking is faster because it is smoother, and it makes it infinitely easier to hit the apex as it takes advantage of the front grip you get from increased load on the fronts under braking, and of course it also allows you to carry more speed a bit deeper into the braking zone.

That's not to say that braking deeper is always better or faster overall, you can go too far. But if you aren't trail-braking some amount at corner entry, you're doing it wrong. You pretty much *have* to trail-brake to execute a proper line into most corners. This business about getting completely off the brakes before turning in is stupid, makes the car much more difficult to drive, and is totally unnecessary. I expect my students to be trail-braking pretty much immediately. It's easier, feels more natural, and is faster.
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post:
amram (03-28-2014), autobrz (10-04-2013), torqdork (10-04-2013)
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Simple question, hard to find answer... Mango22 Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 5 05-16-2013 07:23 PM
Silly question about protecting track rims sw20kosh Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 16 04-25-2013 01:34 PM
Asking the question that I already know the answer to. Are the engines the same? Bigmaxy Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 10 01-19-2013 08:47 PM
Random dog-related question for those who have their BRZ GMU-BRZ BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics 11 05-31-2012 08:48 AM
Got my answer - BRZ comes with HID headlights as STD Z_Rocks BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics 20 01-10-2012 10:54 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.