Cons to a lowered weight pulley set?

[Infamous Performance]

Crank pulley is an ok mod. You lose a few pounds off the end of the crank which equates to a few hundred pounds of "load". But, you lose the samll amount of vibration damopening that the stock pulley provides.

The other pulleys are a waste of money.

If you have an MT the crank pulley is less "impressive". If you have a AT you feel it more.

If you have an MT, do not mix a LWCP with a LWFW. By removing the mass and inertia from both sides of the crank you will cause all the vibration to be absorbed in the crank bearings. You will eat right through the bearings fast. We have seen bearing failures in as little as 2000 miles in EJ motors when combining a LWCP and a LWFW.

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Crank pulley is an ok mod. You lose a few pounds off the end of the crank which equates to a few hundred pounds of "load". But, you lose the samll amount of vibration damopening that the stock pulley provides.

The other pulleys are a waste of money.

If you have an MT the crank pulley is less "impressive". If you have a AT you feel it more.

If you have an MT, do not mix a LWCP with a LWFW. By removing the mass and inertia from both sides of the crank you will cause all the vibration to be absorbed in the crank bearings. You will eat right through the bearings fast. We have seen bearing failures in as little as 2000 miles in EJ motors when combining a LWCP and a LWFW.

Super helpful comment. Thank you. So long story short, go for either a reduced weight flywheel or a reduced weight crank shaft but not both cause that = no Bueno.

What's the acceleration feel like with the new pulley?

[Infamous Performance]

Exactly, 1 or the other. Both is what goes boom.

On an AT you can feel the slight improvement in acceleration. Throttle response is snappier and the car gets off the line quicker. If you are uber nice to the throttle while cruising you can usually see a 1-2mpg increase as well.

On the MT it is not as noticeable. Same changes, just a smaller dose.

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Exactly, 1 or the other. Both is what goes boom.

On an AT you can feel the slight improvement in acceleration. Throttle response is snappier and the car gets off the line quicker. If you are uber nice to the throttle while cruising you can usually see a 1-2mpg increase as well.

On the MT it is not as noticeable. Same changes, just a smaller dose.

Gotcha. So me owning a manual I'll still feel a difference. . Just not as much as an auto.

In your opinion - as it seems you know your shit - is it worth it? Only 300 bucks or so and it seems to add a decent amount of performance.. and a possible MPG boost you say?

[Akari]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

If you have an MT the crank pulley is less "impressive". If you have a AT you feel it more.

Can you explain why this would be? 4lbs off the crank pulley saves you the same amount of rotational mass on both a MT and AT. From a physics standpoint the power gain from it has to be identical, why do you say this is felt more in a AT?

Also 1-2mpg seems like quite the overstatement. 4lbs less of rotational mass at the crank typically equates to more like a .1-.2mpg at most in my experience. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by WallsAndFoundations

Gotcha. So me owning a manual I'll still feel a difference. . Just not as much as an auto.

In your opinion - as it seems you know your shit - is it worth it? Only 300 bucks or so and it seems to add a decent amount of performance.. and a possible MPG boost you say?

You'll feel a light weight flywheel more tho. I am pretty sure they can be had for not much more than the $300 you mentioned.

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

You'll feel a light weight flywheel more tho. I am pretty sure they can be had for not much more than the $300 you mentioned.

Feel install would be a lot more expensive for install though.... but in the end it's really what is better for the car. If I go that route what manufacturers should I look at??

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by WallsAndFoundations

Feel install would be a lot more expensive for install though.... but in the end it's really what is better for the car. If I go that route what manufacturers should I look at??

Brand is down to personal preference. I personally like Toda as they work with the standard clutch and are chromoly steel. I haven't installed mine yet as I still need to track down some ARP bolts.

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

Brand is down to personal preference. I personally like Toda as they work with the standard clutch and are chromoly steel. I haven't installed mine yet as I still need to track down some ARP bolts.

Thanks Turdinator. I was gonna do it this month but obviously I got some stuff to think about.

[Brinks]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

The other pulleys are a waste of money.

Seems like the other pulleys would be just as important. Don't they all share the same load? less weight less resistance......

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Brinks

Seems like the other pulleys would be just as important. Don't they all share the same load? less weight less resistance......

I imagine his statement refers to the cost vs gains ratio of the other pullys. You lose roughly 4 pounds with the crank pulley at a cost of $145. To add the water pump and alternator pulley raises the cost by an additional $230 but you only lose roughly 0.5 pound. After that, replacing the idlers gets you roughly 0.3 pounds weight loss for another $120 when purchased in the S2 set or $225 when purchased alone.

Out of all of the pulleys available from raceseng the highest value comes in buying the crank pulley by itself or the complete S2 setup. The higher quality bearings in them are especially important if you are going to supercharge as people have had issues with pulleys melting/bearings giving out.

Looking solely at a cost/benefit ratio in this case is pretty misleading as those people are seeing an additional cost of $350 for all the other pulleys and only dropping the weight by ~0.9 lbs as opposed to the 4 lb reduction with only the crank pulley that only costs $145. They are not accounting for the better bearings that are in the idlers and the fact that they are no longer plastic.

Also as with everything else in modding cars, there are diminishing returns everywhere, especially on this platform while staying NA. The S2 kit might not meet everyone's needs, but those who want to squeak out every bit of performance they can understand that the lowest hanging fruit is always the first picked and everything else requires more effort/money.

I'm not going with a pulley kit just yet, but when I do it will most assuredly be a raceseng S2 set in black.

As for Infamous Performance claims of issues with pulleys and lightened flywheels, I have yet to see anyone talk of problems with the FA20 motor. Infact I'm fairly certain there are several people running full raceseng S2 set, lightened flywheels, and carbon driveshafts with no problems. Sure there might have been issues with the EJ's (uggh, hello 02-03 WRX) but this is a completely new motor and I'm failing to see how the two are related.

[Brinks]

Originally Posted by Malt

I imagine his statement refers to the cost vs gains ratio of the other pullys. You lose roughly 4 pounds with the crank pulley at a cost of $145. To add the water pump and alternator pulley raises the cost by an additional $230 but you only lose roughly 0.5 pound. After that, replacing the idlers gets you roughly 0.3 pounds weight loss for another $120 when purchased in the S2 set or $225 when purchased alone.

Out of all of the pulleys available from raceseng the highest value comes in buying the crank pulley by itself or the complete S2 setup. The higher quality bearings in them are especially important if you are going to supercharge as people have had issues with pulleys melting/bearings giving out.

Looking solely at a cost/benefit ratio in this case is pretty misleading as those people are seeing an additional cost of $350 for all the other pulleys and only dropping the weight by ~0.9 lbs as opposed to the 4 lb reduction with only the crank pulley that only costs $145. They are not accounting for the better bearings that are in the idlers and the fact that they are no longer plastic.

Also as with everything else in modding cars, there are diminishing returns everywhere, especially on this platform while staying NA. The S2 kit might not meet everyone's needs, but those who want to squeak out every bit of performance they can understand that the lowest hanging fruit is always the first picked and everything else requires more effort/money.

I'm not going with a pulley kit just yet, but when I do it will most assuredly be a raceseng S2 set in black.

As for Infamous Performance claims of issues with pulleys and lightened flywheels, I have yet to see anyone talk of problems with the FA20 motor. Infact I'm fairly certain there are several people running full raceseng S2 set, lightened flywheels, and carbon driveshafts with no problems. Sure there might have been issues with the EJ's (uggh, hello 02-03 WRX) but this is a completely new motor and I'm failing to see how the two are related.

Every little bit counts when your staying NA. I'm surprised the rest of the pulley kit only saves 1lb. I'll be going with the complete S2 setup too once they fix the water pulley issue and a ***riveshaft/RPF1's a little later down the road.

Personally lightweight flywheels are about the worst thing you can do to a daily driver. It makes stop and go traffic a nightmare not to mention having every minivan smoke you off the line while your revving the shit out of your car like a jack ass so you don't bog down. Awesome for the track not so awesome on the street.

[ZDan]

Going to a 10 lb. aluminum flywheel (13 lb. lighter than stock) on the Z was a GREAT mod. Easier/quicker shifting up and down the gears, and slightly QUICKER off the line, not slower. IMO a lightweight flywheel is a MUCH better and more effective mod than replacing the factory harmonic damper with a slightly lighter-weight solid pulley which will increase dynamic stresses in the crank and give about zero discernible performance benefit.

[Brinks]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Going to a 10 lb. aluminum flywheel (13 lb. lighter than stock) on the Z was a GREAT mod. Easier/quicker shifting up and down the gears, and slightly QUICKER off the line, not slower. IMO a lightweight flywheel is a MUCH better and more effective mod than replacing the factory harmonic damper with a slightly lighter-weight solid pulley which will increase dynamic stresses in the crank and give about zero discernible performance benefit.

I've had two lightweight flywheels, one on a 05 20G STi another on a BT Gt28rs Audi A4. Both were terrible. Maybe it was due to the specific set up but they were a buzz kill.

Theirs no harmonic dampener on a flat 4. "Zero performance benefits" is also a bold statement for 5lb's off the rotational mass that a pulley kit will get you. Sure it doesn't show up on a dyno but the car will accelerate faster using the same amount of power. My 510 only has a 110 HP and it smokes my BRZ off the line. Numbers arnt everything.