Injector / seal failure or Miss-fire codes.. please post here

[dabocx]

Hopefully this issue doesnt pop up once I throw the turbo on, hopefully the updated rom helps.

I do see this becoming a recall if the issue continues to happen even after the flash.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

They're currently trying to deny warranty coverage on our engine because the vehicle was "used for competition". Lets not forget that our engine, and entire drivetrain for that matter, is stock. No headers, cat deletes, midpipes, intakes, or even a "sound pipe delete".

I loved when the WRX came with a 1 year SCCA membership and then Subaru showed up at events to track which cars showed up so they could deny warranty coverage in the future.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I loved when the WRX came with a 1 year SCCA membership and then Subaru showed up at events to track which cars showed up so they could deny warranty coverage in the future.

Lets not forget their brochures and press releases.

http://www.media.subaru.com/newsrele...id=190&mid=127

With 2+2 seating and a folding rear seat, there is sufficient cargo space to transport four race tires and tools to track days.

Seeking a pure sports car for road and track driving, Subaru followed a purist approach to engineering the 2013 BRZ.

A standard Torsen® limited-slip differential helps the inside wheel maintain traction during hard cornering. For track driving, the standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) stability and traction control system (TCS) offers the driver five different settings, including a Sport mode and a TCS Off switch for track driving activities.

Drivers who enjoy slalom or track events can also fold the rear seatback and have room for four wheels, a helmet and basic supplies and still have room for the front passenger.

The five-mode driver-selectable Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) system and traction control system allows the driver the tailor the system to conditions and performance needs; stability and traction control can be disengaged for track driving events, for example.

Irvine Subaru can show you the metal throughout the engine. Again, our position in regards to this failure is that it is a result of the vehicle not being driven as the design intended. We have found evidence to indicate this vehicle was raced at Willow Springs International Raceway and the damage to the engine is indicative of racing. We need to reiterate that Subaru of America’s position is the engine failure is not a matter for warranty, it is a customer pay issue and our position is not going to change. We are sorry this is not that answer you may have expected.

Bill

Last I checked, the car seemed to have been designed for track days, and we're certainly not RACING. The car doesn't meet the safety requirements for any sanctioned racing. Both the engine and all safety components are and always have been stock.

Is our car driven hard? Most certainly. Have we done anything to alter the parameters of the drivetrain? Absolutely not. We're using the car as designed, at least, according to their press materials.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

They're currently trying to deny warranty coverage on our engine because the vehicle was "used for competition". Lets not forget that our engine, and entire drivetrain for that matter, is stock. No headers, cat deletes, midpipes, intakes, or even a "sound pipe delete".

I sincerely hope you're fighting them on it. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with that.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Get it posted to Jalopnik; at the very least your engine would likely be warrantied after the bad press.

[CSG Mike]

I've really been hoping that it wouldn't come to a forum post... we've tried to reach an amicable solution with Subaru of America

[2forme]

Warranty Denial: It's what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've really been hoping that it wouldn't come to a forum post... we've tried to reach an amicable solution with Subaru of America

I would do a lot more than just one forum post.

[SkullWorks]

CSG Mike is a standup guy, he doesn't feel making a spectacle out of this will provide a great name for the twins we all know and love....It is likely that the pictures in the TSB we have all been seeing are pictures of his DI's from the first motor, which he also did not heavily publicize....he wants Subaru to make good on their promises, and is giving them the opportunity to do so...


....schmuck....


Lol

[Bamixam]

So it's pretty clear that Toyota has acknowledged this issue with a TSB but do we have any word from Subaru?
Would the prevention fix for this just be as easy as calling a Subaru dealer and making an appointment to have the latest flash thrown on to the ECU?
Better yet does Subaru even have a flash fix for this yet?

Also does this only occur when you bounce it off the rev limiter or is it just with fast/aggressive shifting at very high RPM? (IE. Would shifting slower or with less aggressive throttle input at high RPM possibly prevent this?)

[SkullWorks]

It has been discussed that it is the high RPM shift followed by loading and unloading the throttle, as you would do when adjusting the angle of a car in a high-G corner on track. Or in alot of our cases a canyon road, or ...name your own fun here....


It seems the latest flash upload (per Epifan) from Japan, has extended some spark retard tables all the way past redline where it was previously only enabled/defined to about 5k rpm (maybe lower I forget)

I have not had this issue at all in my car due to the choice of tuning solution, but my car is driven on track at and above factory redline. I'm hoping this lets us quit worrying about a material defect and consolidate this to a Factory Tuning Issue.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

It has been discussed that it is the high RPM shift followed by loading and unloading the throttle, as you would do when adjusting the angle of a car in a high-G corner on track. Or in alot of our cases a canyon road, or ...name your own fun here....

Thanks for explaining, I did not understand this correctly. I thought it was only fast shifting at redline.

[dabocx]

I find it intresting how many issues are being solved with ecu updates. The idle dip/cel/ now the injector issues.

[RAWR BRZ]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

I see thanks RAWR!

You are on stock tune? I am wondering how much damage I have done to my seals after the 5-6 track days I have done already this summer...

I haven't gotten any factory flashes yet and I bought the car last July.

In my opinion I believe it is because of heat. It seems like South Africa already have a reflash to address this issue and we all know it is hotter over there than here. We are now seeing this issue pop up because of the summer heat. I dont recall seeing this thread 3-4 months ago.

And yes my powertrain is 100% stock except for HKS airfilter.

[Lonewolf]

Reposted from another thread for your consideration:

***DISCLAIMER: This post is in no way, shape, or form legal advice or counsel.

I figured a public discussion of some issues might be of some benefit to the members here.

CSG~

1) If the problem which ultimately caused your engine to seize is later found to be a design/manufacture defect or flaw, then your position is suddenly much stronger here (worth mentioning since Toyota has attempted to remedy certain issues with the FA20 via the latest tsb regarding engine software/calibration). The problem is proving the cause (Magnusson-Moss comes into play here) of the engine seizure with respect to any intervening/superceding factors such as your "spirited driving."

So was the cause of the engine failure your driving, the modified suspension and tire components, or the potential design/manufacture defect (factory tune, injector parts and functioning)? That is the major question here.

2) The fact that Subaru's press/marketing materials tout and encourage performance use of the BRZ (despite their somewhat contradictory warranty and user manual statements) is a potential avenue to be explored as well. In a sense, Subaru is marketing the product one way, and then refusing to honor a "reasonable" if not intended use of a sports coupe.

3) The fact that Subaru previously replaced your motor under warranty after similar driving conditions may come into play as well. Was this move an act of "good will" on behalf of Subaru, a waiver and acceptance of your spirited use of the vehicle, or was it an indirect concession that there are unresolved issues with the FA20?

4) As you said, another issue worth noting is that the drivetrain was stock. Now if you had an intake or aftermarket tune (which can cause a lean condition) then I can see Subaru's justification for denial of warranty coverage of the motor. In this case, the fact that the motor was stock (and I presume properly maintained) works in your favor.

***So what to do now...any combo of the three depending on your decision:

1) Seek counsel from an attorney who specializes in warranty/contract or automotive claims. Further investigation of the cause of the engine seizure will likely be necessary here and will involve considerable expense.

2) File a safety complaint with the NHTSA since having an engine seize during operation is a safety concern.

3) Spread word of this problem using the power of the internet (particularly Autoblog and Jalopnik).