Predict the Nurburgring Lap Time for the FT-86

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by 1660

I'm not dreaming. You're overly negative and don't respect other people. You have no proof to your claims.

It appears that Toyota is using the Cayman to benchmark for handling, probably not for straight up power (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by iff2mastamatt

It appears that Toyota is using the Cayman to benchmark for handling, probably not for straight up power (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).

See that's the thing, it's got to be good right? but I don't trust Toyota to actually get close to the Cayman in handling, that costs money. I feel the Cayman and MKIV Supra was involved to create some hype and people be like "OMFG they're benchmarking with those cars, it definitely going to or has to be the beez neez, the shizz" Then after you have everyone saying the same.. creating the buzz.

I'd prefer if they benched marked publicly with RX-8, Miata, Si, WRX, GenCoupe, 370z.. you know.. normal cars that are around the same price, handling. Not die-hard fanatic car like the Supra and 50k+ Cayman, you get me? That's the fishy part, I got to remind people how the buzz is started. Cheap price, Looks good on paper, Crazy cars being "tested" or seen with it. This creates the image that you're getting a great deal and performance for half the price, IMHO I really don't think so.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

See that's the thing, it's got to be good right? but I don't trust Toyota to actually get close to the Cayman in handling, that costs money. I feel the Cayman and MKIV Supra was involved to create some hype and people be like "OMFG they're benchmarking with those cars, it definitely going to or has to be the beez neez, the shizz" Then after you have everyone saying the same.. creating the buzz.

I'd prefer if they benched marked publicly with RX-8, Miata, Si, WRX, GenCoupe, 370z.. you know.. normal cars that are around the same price, handling. Not die-hard fanatic car like the Supra and 50k+ Cayman, you get me? That's the fishy part, I got to remind people how the buzz is started. Cheap price, Looks good on paper, Crazy cars being "tested" or seen with it. This creates the image that you're getting a great deal and performance for half the price, IMHO I really don't think so.

I believe the 370Z also benchmarked the Cayman. If they get the weight right, handling doesn't really cost any more money from a manufacturing point of view, it's mostly the testing and getting it right. And they have been doing a lot of testing at the 'Ring. First the shortened Impreza mule now the prototype. If it's tuned right, similar weight and similar tire it could quite easily match the Cayman in the handling department.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I believe the 370Z also benchmarked the Cayman. If they get the weight right, handling doesn't really cost any more money from a manufacturing point of view, it's mostly the testing and getting it right. And they have been doing a lot of testing at the 'Ring. First the shortened Impreza mule now the prototype. If it's tuned right, similar weight and similar tire it could quite easily match the Cayman in the handling department.

That's fine the Z did that, but why can't the FT benchmark the Z and other cars closer to it. They could be really trying to bring it on par with the Cayman or just creating buzz is all I'm saying.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

That's fine the Z did that, but why can't the FT benchmark the Z and other cars closer to it. They could be really trying to bring it on par with the Cayman or just creating buzz is all I'm saying.

If it were me I'd rather benchmark the original car than benchmark a car that benchmarked another car... could just be simplicity. Plus the Z is a fatty and that could skew things if they simply started there.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

That's fine the Z did that, but why can't the FT benchmark the Z and other cars closer to it. They could be really trying to bring it on par with the Cayman or just creating buzz is all I'm saying.

Because it's not going to be in the same niche or pricepoint as the Z. Plus, why would they want to model after the Z, when the 370Z is a complete financial failure right now? It's going to be an entry-level enthusiast RWD with decent fuel economy, so the acceleration/straightline speed will probably be way below Cayman/370Z, etc. From the get-go they've never said it's going to be tearing up the drag strip, I dunno why people keep hoping otherwise.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

That's fine the Z did that, but why can't the FT benchmark the Z and other cars closer to it. They could be really trying to bring it on par with the Cayman or just creating buzz is all I'm saying.

It's just the handling, there's no reason they can't do that at their target price point.

If it was the whole Cayman (acceleration, speed, handling, comfort, interior, quality, etc...) at the Scion price point, the whole world would call Toyota delusional, and their stock would drop like 20%.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Aki

Because it's not going to be in the same niche or pricepoint as the Z. Plus, why would they want to model after the Z, when the 370Z is a complete financial failure right now? It's going to be an entry-level enthusiast RWD with decent fuel economy, so the acceleration/straightline speed will probably be way below Cayman/370Z, etc. From the get-go they've never said it's going to be tearing up the drag strip, I dunno why people keep hoping otherwise.

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's just the handling, there's no reason they can't do that at their target price point.

If it was the whole Cayman (acceleration, speed, handling, comfort, interior, quality, etc...) at the Scion price point, the whole world would call Toyota delusional, and their stock would drop like 20%.

Which is my point. NC Miata or RX8 would of sufficed for "handling" and power comparison, why a $50k MR/RR car and $20k cult car? Might as well threw my beloved NSX in the mix.

[iff2mastamatt]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

See that's the thing, it's got to be good right? but I don't trust Toyota to actually get close to the Cayman in handling, that costs money. I feel the Cayman and MKIV Supra was involved to create some hype and people be like "OMFG they're benchmarking with those cars, it definitely going to or has to be the beez neez, the shizz" Then after you have everyone saying the same.. creating the buzz.

I'd prefer if they benched marked publicly with RX-8, Miata, Si, WRX, GenCoupe, 370z.. you know.. normal cars that are around the same price, handling. Not die-hard fanatic car like the Supra and 50k+ Cayman, you get me? That's the fishy part, I got to remind people how the buzz is started. Cheap price, Looks good on paper, Crazy cars being "tested" or seen with it. This creates the image that you're getting a great deal and performance for half the price, IMHO I really don't think so.

Aim for the stars, get the moon. The 370Z is an example of a great bang for the buck car, since it can put Cayman owners to shame. However, like you said, making a leap from the FR-S to the Cayman is unheard of. There is no way this car can compare to a car in that class, but if that's Toyota's ambition, I say go for it.

[Michel]

Originally Posted by bofa

I thought about that too, but the Exige mentioned there is the MK1, 11 years ago. 176bhp, 1730 pounds. I bet that same car with some recent tech would do much better. I also remember it topping out at around 125mph, which I'm hoping wont happen to the FT, but who knows.

That's true. The track has changed a lot in 11 years, there is new blacktop in many sections that were quite bumpy a few years back.. the track is much faster nowadays.

[1660]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I believe the 370Z also benchmarked the Cayman. If they get the weight right, handling doesn't really cost any more money from a manufacturing point of view, it's mostly the testing and getting it right. And they have been doing a lot of testing at the 'Ring. First the shortened Impreza mule now the prototype. If it's tuned right, similar weight and similar tire it could quite easily match the Cayman in the handling department.

I agree. You don't spend money on research and development to make a lemon. The FR-S can easily match the Cayman in handling. To improve handling and get the right power to weight ratio, the FR-S can beat the Cayman.

If you think it through, it's not dreaming.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Which is my point. NC Miata or RX8 would of sufficed for "handling" and power comparison, why a $50k MR/RR car and $20k cult car? Might as well threw my beloved NSX in the mix.

Why not use a pure sports car to benchmark when you are tryin to build a pure sports car?

also do you really think the porsche is 50K+ worth of tech and car or is it really more like 30k worth of car and 20K worth in name brand

[serialk11r]

@1660 beating the Cayman I think is a bit optimistic, seeing how it has a 45% displacement advantage...and not that much weight advantage (using say, 2700lbs).

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

@1660 beating the Cayman I think is a bit optimistic, seeing how it has a 45% displacement advantage...and not that much weight advantage (using say, 2700lbs).

Yeah, the FT86 may be able to hang with it in the corners, or even gain a little tiny bit, but when it straightens out the Cayman will pull away. Over the whole 'Ring this will probably add up to over 15 seconds. ('Ring is loooong)

Also, aren't Porsches (and rear weight-biased cars in general) much better at braking. So the FT86 would need a handling advantage that covered the gains the Cayman could get from later braking (less fade too?), and then it is still facing an acceleration and top speed deficit.

(We haven't heard much on the real brakes that will be on this thing, just the advics and the silly Mk3 brakes...)