Predict the Nurburgring Lap Time for the FT-86

[griso]

I know,I use rfactor,gtr2,LFS,etc(no consolle,only PC)...
But (expecially) at Green Hell,if you use a sim you can try to make the best lap,in reality is a bit different....IMHO

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

ANY car "sim" where you can do equivalent-to-real-life times using a game controller rather than a proper wheel/pedal/shifter rig = total fantasyland. (Even when they require the correct hardware for decent times, most still reside in fantasyland from a driving feel and physics perspective.)

You are faster with a wheel...just FYI..


Update (after a little more seat time)
Nurburg Ring
MKII
No Aids (1 ABS)

Time: 8:21.619

I believe there are spots where I can shave off another couple hundredths of a second.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

You are faster with a wheel...just FYI..

No doubt, but even being able to get semi-competitive times without one shows how unrealistic it is. Not saying it can't be fun, but there is a reason pro teams use the professional version of rFactor with high-end force feedback and not GT5 or Forza 4.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

No doubt, but even being able to get semi-competitive times without one shows how unrealistic it is. Not saying it can't be fun, but there is a reason pro teams use the professional version of rFactor with high-end force feedback and not GT5 or Forza 4.

Professionals have used GT5 as well. And it's pretty accurate and realistic times. And now with the new Datalogger it's even MORE accurate because they are importing "actual" pro drivers lap data and importing them into the game. The future of GT5 (perhaps a save for GT6) will be to race against the Ghost of your favorite race driver. Or perhaps do Tandem runs with Ken Gushi....you feel me.

Grab a 2007 GTR and leave it bone stock. Exit out to Arcade and run the Nurburg with it. You get a trophy for beating the actual IRL time. You have to drive your arse off to even beat that time. And it won't be by much.

<----has the trophy

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Grab a 2007 GTR and leave it bone stock. Exit out to Arcade and run the Nurburg with it. You get a trophy for beating the actual IRL time. You have to drive your arse off to even beat that time. And it won't be by much.

<----has the trophy

That's the damn truth. That is one helluva difficult trophy to win. So far I'm off the time by around 5 seconds.

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by dalli

Which one is the VLN layout? whats the name of it in the game because im getting 11 minutes and 10 seconds.. wth? and this is with an aero kit.... come on?

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

It should be the 24hr Nur ver

Hmmm actually it is the 4 hour race layout. In gt5, it is called type V of Nur endurance race. In the GP section, it includes the looping section after the first corner, but it does not include the hairpin that is the furthest away from the pit.

[rayman0690]

Would someone like to tell me how the developers of GT5 can get their hands on this car and produce an "accurate" simulation of the car or near production car to go into a video game and yet other details about the car are not yet present? All the telemetry and data they would need to collect to create an accurate model of the car for a game...this data must be floating around somewhere that could answer some questions and give insight into handling and such. Especially when it comes to the needs of the aftermarket.

Or is everyone just speculating that this car will be similar to the video game version in actual, tangible, real life?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by rayman0690

Would someone like to tell me how the developers of GT5 can get their hands on this car and produce an "accurate" simulation of the car or near production car to go into a video game and yet other details about the car are not yet present? All the telemetry and data they would need to collect to create an accurate model of the car for a game...this data must be floating around somewhere that could answer some questions and give insight into handling and such. Especially when it comes to the needs of the aftermarket.

Or is everyone just speculating that this car will be similar to the video game version in actual, tangible, real life?

They probably had early access from Toyota and had to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by rayman0690

Would someone like to tell me how the developers of GT5 can get their hands on this car and produce an "accurate" simulation of the car or near production car to go into a video game and yet other details about the car are not yet present? All the telemetry and data they would need to collect to create an accurate model of the car for a game...this data must be floating around somewhere that could answer some questions and give insight into handling and such. Especially when it comes to the needs of the aftermarket.

Or is everyone just speculating that this car will be similar to the video game version in actual, tangible, real life?

PD was given the information from Toyota, that information isn't just floating about on the internet. Kazunori Yamauchi has deep connection with nearly all the top heads of auto makers.

In regards to this car, PD has been onboard of the FT86 project since the beginning. Its not surprising that they have ready made playable models even before the 86 was even unveiled because of this.

Earlier tests the USB port on the FT86 recorded laptimes and can be transported to GT5 software. Its likely that PD had simulation information than anyone else did.

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by rayman0690

Would someone like to tell me how the developers of GT5 can get their hands on this car and produce an "accurate" simulation of the car or near production car to go into a video game and yet other details about the car are not yet present? All the telemetry and data they would need to collect to create an accurate model of the car for a game...this data must be floating around somewhere that could answer some questions and give insight into handling and such. Especially when it comes to the needs of the aftermarket.

Or is everyone just speculating that this car will be similar to the video game version in actual, tangible, real life?

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

PD was given the information from Toyota, that information isn't just floating about on the internet. Kazunori Yamauchi has deep connection with nearly all the top heads of auto makers.

In regards to this car, PD has been onboard of the FT86 project since the beginning. Its not surprising that they have ready made playable models even before the 86 was even unveiled because of this.

Earlier tests the USB port on the FT86 recorded laptimes and can be transported to GT5 software. Its likely that PD had simulation information than anyone else did.

Just to add something here: in one of the video for 86 there is talks about the data logger that one professional driver run the early production/prototype car in Fuji speedway and then they took the data to PD's office in Tokyo and let Kaz to compete it against the ghost image in GT5. I believe this has been done not only for 86 but also for other cars.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

They probably had early access from Toyota and had to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

+1 NDA agreement has to be somewhere in the works. Just like Crawford getting their hands on an FR-S for first ECU testing, just like the other Aftermarket companies that are most likely going to have very highly modified version of the FR-S/GT86 at the next international/big show.


And remember the very first MKI when they were talking about the datalogger built into the dash panel when it was first thought of to have a graphical display of the track? Remember that way back then...I think GT had something to do with the development of that too.

[Calais]

i picked no idea i just want it to feel great while driving i wont be tracking it or racing it, maybe a couple of passes at the drags but nothing serious. i just want it to feel great while driving and to know when i get bored i can have some fun on track or off

[RaceR]

If you guys want to find out the real life times in GT5 by racing it on sport hard you are doing a serious mistake.
Sport hard is a semi-slick tire. Not meant for road cars.
PD just made it the stock tire choice so that noobs could go fast around corners without having knowledge of throttle control or using the pedal the some people refer to as brake pedal.
It is a part of marketing. Average Joe would drive like crap on comfort mediums! Average Joe would not recommend GT5 to his friends, thereby less sales. Average Joe would play NFS.. Yeah, cars can do corners in that game without going offroading... Putting grippy tires on a car makes it easier to drive. It is a compromise between being a simulator and appealing to the larger crowd..
....Its also called car marketing. Toyota uses extreme amounts of money on marketing the car and it is no secret PD is very supportive of the Japanese cars.
So if people run a stock GT86 doing a 8.3x laptime with sports hard (EYY, it is stock tires right?? It is from the dealership, just like in real life) This car is faast!! POWAAHH.. SUPREME CORNERING....
What about all the other simular powered opponents for the GT86 that comes with comfort soft? They suck right.. ?
And the GT86 is supposed to have Prius tires from the dealership! Not semi slick track day tires...
Basically all the opponents of GT86 has comfort soft as default/stock tire.
It just makes no sence!
"I can do 8.25 in GT5. S2000 only does 8.39 in real life. GT86 is sooo quick... "
Only stupid people gets fooled by cheap tricks... (or people with too much good faith in something)

Here are some other things about GT5 stock tire choices that does not make sence.
A BMW M3 CSL comes with sport hard. That car comes with semi slick tires in real life, from the dealership (there are several examples of this)
Old high performance road cars from 1960-70 comes with sport hard. Performance tires back then could not compare with modern tires at all!
A typical modern day Ferrari comes with sport hard. And that car does not use semi slicks like the M3 CSL.
Makes sence?? .. nope...

Earlier tonight I did a high 8.15 lap in the stock GT86. (only took a couple of laps. Yeah, I know every corner on the track) And I know several people that are faster than me! Alot of people are faster then those again. Those people cold make the stock car do Nordschleife in less then 8.10
8.16 is the time of a BMW 1M!!

Check out this thread on GTPLANET.
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=214611
Nordschleife Lap Times Leaderboard

Lets compare with some real life lap times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

These are just random examples.
BMW E46 M3,sport hard. GT5 7.46 Real life 8.22 +36 sec
Ferrari F430, sport hard. GT5 7.24 Real life 7.55 + 31 sec
Mercedes SLS AMG,SH GT5 7,16 Real life 7.44 + 28 sec
BMW E92 M3, sport hard GT5 7,39 Real life 8,05 + 26 sec

Now, what do we see here? GT5 cars with sport hard tires are totally superior to the real life cars due to their high cornering speeds.

In the GT5 SLS TOPGEAR LIVE CHALLENGE they would take gamers vs. a pro race driver.
1. result. Gamers should be on sport hard, they had to do a last minute change to comfort soft or they would beat the crap of if Davids real life lap time. (can not remember if this comes out in the video, but that is the reason why the seasonal event had comfort soft tires, even tough the car comes with sport hard as standard.
2. David won by small margin, but he was cutting like crazy. If same rules for everyone he would not have won.
3. Gamers in GT beat his laptime by several seconds on comfort soft, and they could not cut nearly as much.
Check this for a nice video.

Here is another comparison done by a magazine. (nice video here aswell)
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showth...=227775&page=2
Ill quote the dude behind the article.

"I also wanted to see if I could mirror my GT5 times, but I placed a few restrictions on my Virtual Laps.
1. Comfort medium tyres. According to Digital Polyphony, these most closely replicate the grip characteristics of the real car's road tyres."

I do not have knowledge of PD saying that comfort medium tires replicate real life tires. But 90% of my game time have been used in GT + Nordschleife + road cars with road tires. I have played over 500 online laps in PP races comparing road cars online at Nordschleife! Mostly on comfort soft or sport hard. I can say that I have a pretty good understanding of the times GT5 cars have compared to real life cars. As do all the regular people i race with.
And we know that comfort soft really is the way to go when racing 400-500pp cars for realism, even tough many of the higher PP cars comes with sport hard.

Seriously, go to tuning shop in GT5 look at the tire pictures. Sport hard replicates a semi-slick tire.
Drive with sport hard in 50% wet conditions and you would for sure be slower compared to comfort soft! (yeye,, soft subber you say... semi slick tire i say and look at all the other numbers/facts here)

Lets compare some times where people use the comfort soft (GT5 have given these cars comfort soft as stock tires)
Real life Mini cooper S 06 8.52
GT5 Mini cooper 05 9.04
GT5 Mini cooper 07 8.48
Wow the average result from the 05/07 model is very close to real life.

Honda S2000, comfort soft, GT5 8,18 Real life 8,39 + 21 sec

What about 01 civic.
GT5 8,27 - real life 8.47 + 20 sec (on comfort soft!)
Comfort medium would probably still be way too fast for both the S2000 and the civic..

Lets look at the overall picture here. It is very clear that sport hard are just way to grippy. Even comfort soft does in some/alot of cases have more grip compared to the real life cars high performance summer tires.

Stock real life GT86 lapping in the 8.1x range.. yeah right.. I love the car, but i do not believe in Santa Claus....
Put some road tires (named comfort tires in GT5) on the car and maybe Santa Claus could give you a better real life laptime estimate based on your GT5 time...

(sorry if I did errors in numbers or language in this way too long post here. And if I was a little harsh in my language, getting really late and trying to make a point here )

[ydooby]

^Good point. With everything else being so true to the stock configurations it's a shame that the game doesn't offer OEM tires as an option.