General Shifting Q's

[Lust]

Hey everyone, I've been lurking the forums for quite a while and reading up on a bunch of stuff.
Wow, what a bunch of knowledgeable and friendly people on here! I have a few questions...

1. I recently just purchased my '15 FR-S MT and this is the same vehicle I "learned" to drive stick in and I am still having trouble to shift smoothly.
I can get it pretty smooth but I feel like I'm burning the clutch because I think I might be clutching out too slow.
Any tips to shift quicker without being jerky?

2. For city driving, what RPMs do you guys normally shift at for best MPG? What gear do you stay in for 35mph and 45mph zones?

3. When coming to a stop light or a stop sign do you guys clutch in then shift into neutral or let the car coast in a specific gear until a certain rpm before stopping?

4. Am I wearing the clutch down if I am in traffic and completely depressing the clutch? I normally don't do this unless its stop and go traffic and I know I'll need to move soon otherwise I stop and put it in neutral.

Any other tips for MT driving is also appreciated. I didn't have anyone teach me how to properly drive a MT. Practically drove it off the lot with 0 experience and just driving it with instinct.

Thanks

[swarb]

1. shift faster. You only feather the clutch in 1st. Other gears, it's just clutch, shift and release clutch.
2. 1st gear about 3k rpm. 35-45mph 4th or 5th depending on if I need to accelerate or constant speed. Partial throttle saves a lot of gas.
3. Brake in gear, when I am going under 15mph I usually put it in neutral.
4. No, but if you feather it while trying to accelerate you are.

If it jerks you forward, you are shifting too slow or not giving enough gas.
If it jerks you backwards, you are shifting too fast or giving too much gas.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Lust

Hey everyone, I've been lurking the forums for quite a while and reading up on a bunch of stuff.
Wow, what a bunch of knowledgeable and friendly people on here! I have a few questions...

1. I recently just purchased my '15 FR-S MT and this is the same vehicle I "learned" to drive stick in and I am still having trouble to shift smoothly.
I can get it pretty smooth but I feel like I'm burning the clutch because I think I might be clutching out too slow.
Any tips to shift quicker without being jerky?

2. For city driving, what RPMs do you guys normally shift at for best MPG? What gear do you stay in for 35mph and 45mph zones?

3. When coming to a stop light or a stop sign do you guys clutch in then shift into neutral or let the car coast in a specific gear until a certain rpm before stopping?

4. Am I wearing the clutch down if I am in traffic and completely depressing the clutch? I normally don't do this unless its stop and go traffic and I know I'll need to move soon otherwise I stop and put it in neutral.

Any other tips for MT driving is also appreciated. I didn't have anyone teach me how to properly drive a MT. Practically drove it off the lot with 0 experience and just driving it with instinct.

Thanks

HELLO, Lust and WELCOME to ..... The Forum ........

CONGRATULATIONS on your new purchase ....

First off ....... a warmer transmission is a happier transmission, so let it spin for a few miles before you expect a smooth shift (especially the 1-2 shift).

I would suggest that when shifting, wind up the last gear relatively tight (3-4,000 rpms) before shifting into the next higher gear.

Also, when shifting from 1st to 2nd, pull the shift lever slowly and firmly into 2nd gear ....... same for 2-3 (except push it).

It's not a toggle switch nor a lever on a game controller ..... the shift lever is connected directly to and is moving heavy transmission parts.

I suggest you not "lazy leg" it and push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor.

When coming to a stop, I suggest you leave it in gear till you are almost stopped, then push the clutch in and if it's going to be a long (more than like 5 seconds) stop, slip it into nuetral (saves wear on the throw-out bearing).

I'd suggest you crank it up to at least 4,000 rpms before shifting. The little engine likes to rev.

The clutch can be a little tricky for some folks, because the engine has relatively low torque and has a relatively light flywheel.

You'll get the hang of it .....


humfrz

[Lust]

Originally Posted by humfrz

HELLO, Lust and WELCOME to ..... The Forum ........

CONGRATULATIONS on your new purchase ....

First off ....... a warmer transmission is a happier transmission, so let it spin for a few miles before you expect a smooth shift (especially the 1-2 shift).

I would suggest that when shifting, wind up the last gear relatively tight (3-4,000 rpms) before shifting into the next higher gear.

Also, when shifting from 1st to 2nd, pull the shift lever slowly and firmly into 2nd gear ....... same for 2-3 (except push it).

It's not a toggle switch nor a lever on a game controller ..... the shift lever is connected directly to and is moving heavy transmission parts.

I suggest you not "lazy leg" it and push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor.

When coming to a stop, I suggest you leave it in gear till you are almost stopped, then push the clutch in and if it's going to be a long (more than like 5 seconds) stop, slip it into nuetral (saves wear on the throw-out bearing).

I'd suggest you crank it up to at least 4,000 rpms before shifting. The little engine likes to rev.

The clutch can be a little trick for some folks because the engine has relatively low torque and a relatively light flywheel.

You'll get the hang of it .....


humfrz

Thanks!

Do I need to apply throttle when releasing the clutch or should I only apply throttle after my foot is completely off the clutch? The line in bold, do you mind elaborating? I thought it was always best to push the clutch ALL the way in.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Lust

Thanks!

Do I need to apply throttle when releasing the clutch or should I only apply throttle after my foot is completely off the clutch? The line in bold, do you mind elaborating? I thought it was always best to push the clutch ALL the way in.

Yes, DO push the clutch all the way in when using it. Sorry I was misleading.

"Lazy leg" is when we get into a habit of NOT pushing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor ..... and wonder why you get a notchy shift .....

The feeding of gas during shifting is sort of a tricky thing to explain. Generally you want to give it enough gas while you let out on the clutch, so the process of change is smooth.

PS - "bliping" the throttle on the downshift makes for a smoother shifting experience.

I hope this helps.


humfrz

[Lust]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Yes, DO push the clutch all the way in when using it. Sorry I was misleading.

"Lazy leg" is when we get into a habit of NOT pushing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor ..... and wonder why we get a notchy shift .....

The feeding of gas during shifting is sort of a tricky thing to explain. Generally you want to give it enough gas while you let out on the clutch, so the process of change is smooth.

I hope this helps.


humfrz

Okay got it. That makes more sense. Just to confirm, shifting at 3-4k is fine right? In the system there is a shift indicator that goes off for "optimal" fuel economy which is normally 2000-2500 RPM. I did notice the higher the RPM the smoother the shift was. Am I sacrificing a smooth shift for MPG?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Lust

Okay got it. That makes more sense. Just to confirm, shifting at 3-4k is fine right? In the system there is a shift indicator that goes off for "optimal" fuel economy which is normally 2000-2500 RPM. I did notice the higher the RPM the smoother the shift was. Am I sacrificing a smooth shift for MPG?

The shift point may be up for discussion. On one extreme, some folks like to almost trigger the rev limiter before shifting. The other extreme is shifting at 2,000 or lower ..... which "lugs" the engine (not a good thing).

Personally, under average driving, I shift around 4,000 rpms. When I'm feeling frisky, I shift at around 5,500 rpms. I have my rev light set for 6,500 rpms. Why 6,500, because it takes this old goat a while to shift after the light, lights up ...and I can't hear the tone that mrs humfrz says goes off. Besides triggering the fuel cut off (rev limiter) really puts a damper on your little drag race .....


I don't reckon you will see a significant difference in gas milage between shifting ay 3,000 or 5,000 rpms ...... so, let the little engine spin up .....


humfrz

[cycleboy]

What my dad taught me 30 years ago in my '63 Bug was that the clutch and gas should be moving in opposite directions. It doesn't have to be totally literal, but that gives you an idea of how to move them so things are smooth.

[OctaneFRS]

Originally Posted by swarb

1. shift faster. You only feather the clutch in 1st. Other gears, it's just clutch, shift and release clutch.
2. 1st gear about 3k rpm. 35-45mph 4th or 5th depending on if I need to accelerate or constant speed. Partial throttle saves a lot of gas.
3. Brake in gear, when I am going under 15mph I usually put it in neutral.
4. No, but if you feather it while trying to accelerate you are.

If it jerks you forward, you are shifting too slow or not giving enough gas.
If it jerks you backwards, you are shifting too fast or giving too much gas.

From my very limited experience with my manual FRS, I believe these instructions will help a good deal. My main issue was shifting too slow and letting the RPMs drop too low causing the jerkiness when re-engaging the clutch.

[MJones_RB]

Another piece of advice is to use your dead pedal. A lot of beginners tend to wear out their clutches by keeping their foot on the clutch pedal when they are not shifting. Your left foot should only be on the clutch pedal when you are in the act of shifting. Even if it's lightly resting on the clutch pedal, it could be enough to lift the pressure plate slightly off, causing it to lose proper contact.

[KellieRahne]

Originally Posted by Lust

...Any tips to shift quicker without being jerky?

Practice, practice, practice. Drive a lot.

Originally Posted by Lust

2. For city driving, what RPMs do you guys normally shift at for best MPG? What gear do you stay in for 35mph and 45mph zones?

I'm usually in 3rd gear in 35mph zones and 4th gear in 45mph zones. But really this is up to you and your driving style.

Originally Posted by Lust

3. When coming to a stop light or a stop sign do you guys clutch in then shift into neutral or let the car coast in a specific gear until a certain rpm before stopping?

You'll get as many answers to this as there are drivers, but I usually downshift into 2nd gear (or a higher gear if I am going particularly fast) and use clutch control to allow the engine to help decelerate the car. This does cause clutch wear, but I have never had to have repairs to the clutch of any car I have ever driven.

Originally Posted by Lust

4. Am I wearing the clutch down if I am in traffic and completely depressing the clutch? I normally don't do this unless its stop and go traffic and I know I'll need to move soon otherwise I stop and put it in neutral.

No. Fully engaging the clutch does not cause clutch wear.

Originally Posted by Lust

Any other tips for MT driving is also appreciated. I didn't have anyone teach me how to properly drive a MT. Practically drove it off the lot with 0 experience and just driving it with instinct.

Thanks

Practice, practice, practice. Drive a lot.

[3nl]

Originally Posted by KellieRahne

You'll get as many answers to this as there are drivers, but I usually downshift into 2nd gear (or a higher gear if I am going particularly fast) and use clutch control to allow the engine to help decelerate the car. This does cause clutch wear, but I have never had to have repairs to the clutch of any car I have ever driven.

Don't ever do this - using your clutch as a brake like you are suggesting, completely ignoring the wear and tear, is extremely dangerous and you are very, very likely to be rear-ended. You can sequentially downshift to slow the car if you are rev-matching, but what you are talking about is nothing like that.

What you are describing is basically hitting your brakes without having your brake lights come on. Not only that, but if you aren't super light on the clutch, you will lock your wheels and have no brake lights on - and if you are going too fast when this happens, you will over-rev the engine. This is just a terrible idea all around. Brakes are way cheaper than a clutch and they have that added benefit of actually making your brake lights go on...

On top of that you can be pulled over and ticketed for this...it'll be reckless driving if someone has to slam on their brakes and locks them up because you did this and a cop sees it.

[KellieRahne]

Originally Posted by 3nl

Don't ever do this - using your clutch as a brake like you are suggesting, completely ignoring the wear and tear, is extremely dangerous and you are very, very likely to be rear-ended. You can sequentially downshift to slow the car if you are rev-matching, but what you are talking about is nothing like that.

What you are describing is basically hitting your brakes without having your brake lights come on. Not only that, but if you aren't super light on the clutch, you will lock your wheels and have no brake lights on - and if you are going too fast when this happens, you will over-rev the engine. This is just a terrible idea all around. Brakes are way cheaper than a clutch and they have that added benefit of actually making your brake lights go on...

On top of that you can be pulled over and ticketed for this...it'll be reckless driving if someone has to slam on their brakes and locks them up because you did this and a cop sees it.

I knew when I posted that, that someone would freak out about it. I did mention that it caused wear on the clutch. I didn't mention that I also use the brake while doing this, so your point about brake lights isn't a point at all. And if someone rearends me because I am decelerating to a stop light/sign or stopped traffic, they were following too close and the fault is theirs.
Thanks for the warning about reckless driving. You must be a cop and have Virginia traffic law memorized.
Like I said, everyone drives differently. How about you drive your way and I'll drive mine.

[3nl]

Originally Posted by KellieRahne

I knew when I posted that, that someone would freak out about it. I did mention that it caused wear on the clutch. I didn't mention that I also use the brake while doing this, so your point about brake lights isn't a point at all. And if someone rearends me because I am decelerating to a stop light/sign or stopped traffic, they were following too close and the fault is theirs.
Thanks for the warning about reckless driving. You must be a cop and have Virginia traffic law memorized.
Like I said, everyone drives differently. How about you drive your way and I'll drive mine.

Well then why don't you say anything about your brakes? You are giving suggestions to someone, and as your advice reads, it's flat out dangerous. I've seen plenty of people do that without brakes.

If your brake lights come on when you do this, have at it - you aren't hurting anyone. If you do this without your brakes.... well, everyone around you is going to care - a lot.

If you get rear-ended because you locked up your wheels with no brake lights, you are going to be significantly at fault... The person rear ending you won't get off, but you won't either.

And I couldn't be further from a cop... unless software engineers suddenly got a piece of that monopoly on violence and I'm just missing out... Where did you get VA from? I'm from WI...it says so right in the box next to my name.