Rev Matching to second gear

[ARTBRZ]

This is my first manual so I have a simple question that I haven't been able to find through search. So I've been able to rev match well going to 5th, 4th and 3rd well but not to 2nd gear. I'd say I blip it about 700 rpm to get a smooth downshift without lunging forward in the other gears. I've tried a few times rev matching to second and it's a horrible feeling. I want to get a reference how much to blip because I feel that I'm going to wear down my clutch or mess up something before I figure it out.

So how much do you guys blip the throttle when going to 2nd gear (with or without A/C on)?

[mav1178]

It's easy to do. Depends entirely on vehicle speed, though.

-alex

[ARTBRZ]

Originally Posted by mav1178

It's easy to do. Depends entirely on vehicle speed, though.

-alex

Hmm...it varies with speed. I didn't know. I'm planning to go to the dragon in a few weeks so I need to get this down. I've been trying to down shift from 4000 rpm. I thinks that around 45 mph?..maybe.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ARTBRZ

Hmm...it varies with speed. I didn't know. I'm planning to go to the dragon in a few weeks so I need to get this down. I've been trying to down shift from 4000 rpm. I thinks that around 45 mph?..maybe.

Just drive the car up to 45MPH in 2nd gear, see what RPM you are at.
Then whatever RPM you are in 3/4/5, take the difference. That's what you need to rev the engine by to match RPMs.

-alex

[ARTBRZ]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Just drive the car up to 45MPH in 2nd gear, see what RPM you are at.
Then whatever RPM you are in 3/4/5, take the difference. That's what you need to rev the engine by to match RPMs.

-alex

I don't know I didn't think of that. Dang it!

[Amir Ghadiri]

Like Alex said, it completely depends on vehicle speed. Keep in mind that redline in second gear will be at 59mph. So from 3 to 2 at 59 mph, 7400rpm. 50 mph, ~6000 rpm. 40mph, ~4500 rpm, etc. First gear is the same idea. Redlone is at 35mph. 2 to 1 at 35mph, 7400 rpm. 25 mph, ~5200 rpm, etc.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Amir Ghadiri

Like Alex said, it completely depends on vehicle speed. Keep in mind that redline in second gear will be at 59mph. So from 3 to 2 at 59 mph, 7400rpm. 50 mph, ~6000 rpm. 40mph, ~4500 rpm, etc. First gear is the same idea. Redlone is at 35mph. 2 to 1 at 35mph, 7400 rpm. 25 mph, ~5200 rpm, etc.

Originally Posted by mav1178

It's easy to do. Depends entirely on vehicle speed, though.

-alex

No it does not

If it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 50 MPH, then it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 20 MPH.
Unless you have a CVT of course.

OP (I will get flamed for this) try downshifting from 3rd to 2nd without the clutch.
Get rolling at ~35 MPH in 3rd.
Blip the throttle and slide it out of gear (the blip will relieve pressure on the gear stack)
increase revs by ~1000 RPM and ease it into 2nd (no clutch).
You will likely grind a couple of times trying this but unless you are using a gorilla grip you wont hurt it.
My bet is that you will get it before the 4th try.
Now that you understand that, experiment in different gears.
I have a video of me shifting from 1st all the way to 6th and back to 2nd without ever touching the clutch and ZERO grinding.

This is not a skill you would ever use in performacne driving, but it DOES help you to understand rev matching.

I drove my Karmann Ghia for months with NO clutch using that method.
To start at red lights, I had to turn the engine off, put it in first and start the car...

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by stugray

No it does not

If it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 50 MPH, then it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 20 MPH.
Unless you have a CVT of course.

Your response suggests going into the next lowest gear, i.e. 4 to 3 or 3 to 2.

My response "entirely dependent on vehicle speed" is assuming you are shifting from any other gear or even neutral.

Both are correct.

-alex

[Jfheisenberg]

This is my first manual car as well, i learned to rev match pretty quick but i always had some problem rev matching when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd. What i do is, i hit the throttle twice really quick and that seems to works very well for me.

1- Clutch in
2- Hit the throttle twice very fast
3- Move from 3rd to 2nd
4- Release clutch slowly and continue to hit the throttle

Just keep in mind that this has to be done very quick. If you take too much time when pressing on the clutch, your RPMS are going to go too low and it will be more difficult to rev match.

[murdoc]

Originally Posted by stugray

No it does not

If it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 50 MPH, then it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 20 MPH.
Unless you have a CVT of course.

OP (I will get flamed for this) try downshifting from 3rd to 2nd without the clutch.
Get rolling at ~35 MPH in 3rd.
Blip the throttle and slide it out of gear (the blip will relieve pressure on the gear stack)
increase revs by ~1000 RPM and ease it into 2nd (no clutch).
You will likely grind a couple of times trying this but unless you are using a gorilla grip you wont hurt it.
My bet is that you will get it before the 4th try.
Now that you understand that, experiment in different gears.
I have a video of me shifting from 1st all the way to 6th and back to 2nd without ever touching the clutch and ZERO grinding.

This is not a skill you would ever use in performacne driving, but it DOES help you to understand rev matching.

I drove my Karmann Ghia for months with NO clutch using that method.
To start at red lights, I had to turn the engine off, put it in first and start the car...

I feel like if the RPM gap was always the same, shifting from third to second at 10 MPH would take you from ~800 RPM to around 2700 RPM, since doing it at 60 MPH will increase RPM by about 2000.

[Tcoat]

I am going to have to pay attention to what I do! Been doing it so long it just sort of happens and sitting here thinking about it I don't have a clue how I actually do it.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Jfheisenberg

This is my first manual car as well, i learned to rev match pretty quick but i always had some problem rev matching when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd. What i do is, i hit the throttle twice really quick and that seems to works very well for me.

1- Clutch in
2- Hit the throttle twice very fast
3- Move from 3rd to 2nd
4- Release clutch slowly and continue to hit the throttle

Just keep in mind that this has to be done very quick. If you take too much time when pressing on the clutch, your RPMS are going to go too low and it will be more difficult to rev match.

Why don't you just double clutch downshift from 3 to 2?

I find that if the gearbox is cold, I have to double clutch downshift from 3 to 2, otherwise 2nd gear will be very hard to engage. Once it warms up then rev-matching or heel and toe from 3 to 2 works fine. Upshifts seem to be fine for all gears when cold, I don't beat on my car (4k rpm max) until the temp is nominal.

I also might get flame for this but running Eneos Gear Oil / Subaru Extra-S GL-5 gives you much better quality 1st and 2nd gear shifts (new generation of GL-5 oil don't eat into yellow metal).

Also if your engine speed is very slow, just double clutch it from 3 to 2 so that you can build up enough revs for 2nd gear.

My HVAC is always on Auto, if it's on Full Auto (A/C on) then I tend to release my clutch slower when driving to ensure smoothness.

[Jfheisenberg]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Why don't you just double clutch downshift from 3 to 2?

I find that if the gearbox is cold, I have to double clutch downshift from 3 to 2, otherwise 2nd gear will be very hard to engage. Once it warms up then rev-matching or heel and toe from 3 to 2 works fine. Upshifts seem to be fine for all gears when cold, I don't beat on my car (4k rpm max) until the temp is nominal.

I also might get flame for this but running Eneos Gear Oil / Subaru Extra-S GL-5 gives you much better quality 1st and 2nd gear shifts (new generation of GL-5 oil don't eat into yellow metal).

Also if your vehicle speed is very slow, just double clutch it from 3 to 2 so that you can build up enough revs for 2nd gear.

My HVAC is always on Auto, if it's on Full Auto (A/C on) then I tend to release my clutch slower when driving to ensure smoothness.

Yeah, im not very familiar with double clutch and i haven't try the hill and toe method yet.

I havent really used my AC yet. Do you really feel a different when the AC is on while shifting gears?

[fika84]

Originally Posted by stugray

No it does not

If it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 50 MPH, then it takes 1000 RPM difference to shift from 3rd to 2nd at 20 MPH.
Unless you have a CVT of course.

OP (I will get flamed for this) try downshifting from 3rd to 2nd without the clutch.
Get rolling at ~35 MPH in 3rd.
Blip the throttle and slide it out of gear (the blip will relieve pressure on the gear stack)
increase revs by ~1000 RPM and ease it into 2nd (no clutch).
You will likely grind a couple of times trying this but unless you are using a gorilla grip you wont hurt it.
My bet is that you will get it before the 4th try.
Now that you understand that, experiment in different gears.
I have a video of me shifting from 1st all the way to 6th and back to 2nd without ever touching the clutch and ZERO grinding.

This is not a skill you would ever use in performacne driving, but it DOES help you to understand rev matching.

I drove my Karmann Ghia for months with NO clutch using that method.
To start at red lights, I had to turn the engine off, put it in first and start the car...

Stu it's not the same RPM shift at every speed.. look at any RPM vs Speed graph for all gears and you will see they are not parallel - here is an example