follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.

Register and become an FT86Club.com member. You will see fewer ads

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-27-2009, 04:29 PM   #1
Bochet
( . ) ( . )
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: 2001 2.5RS 4Dr 5MT
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 52
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
D-4S

http://paultan.org/2009/10/09/toyota...-boxer-engine/

A pretty sharp reader managed to point out that the words found on the Toyota FT-86 boxer engine is actually D-4S Boxer and not C-45 Boxer. Now this makes so much sense, and also gives us an idea of the kind of technology that’s going to be found in the new engine. We can also predict its power output based on other engines that have featured D-4S and high compression in the past, like the 2GR-FSE.


The fact that the production version of the FT-86 coupe will feature D-4S is not new actually. Sometime earlier this year at the Tokyo Auto Salon, Akio Toyoda said that the production car will not be coming very soon because a new boxer engine with Toyota D-4S technology was still being developed. The Subaru version of the FT-86 will also feature its own Subaru D-4S Boxer engine.


D-4S is basically an advanced variant of Toyota’s D-4 direct injection system. You might have noticed D-4D badging on local Toyota Hilux pickups – that’s their diesel direct injection. D-4 is basically gasoline direct injection, and D-4S stands for D-4 Superior. D-4S combines both direct injection and conventional port injection for each cylinder which means two injectors per cylinder, or eight injectors if the engine is a 4-cylinder boxer like the FT-86 production car will have. The system will pick between the two types of injectors according to needs (here’s a good story on how it works).


It won’t surprise me if the 2.0 liter D-4S Boxer engine in the production Toyota FT-86 coupe may make over 160 to 170 horsepower and around 210 to 215Nm of torque, which exceeds what regular 2.0 liter engines with port injection can do.


_________________________________

http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_story_behind_warss/


The conventional 45-psi (3.1 bar) port injection takes care of start-up by itself because it's cleaner and more efficient at doing that, while the high-pressure direct injection operates alone at full load for maximum performance. In between, at most part-load conditions, both operate together (along with the dual VVT-i) to optimize the finely tuned balance of performance, fuel economy and emissions.


Toyota says its unique D-4S dual-injection system is superior to its conventional D-4 port injection because the latter employs a swirl control valve and a high-tumble intake port to achieve a homogenous mixture and stable combustion under part-load conditions. But those nifty tricks also reduce the rate of intake flow. With the D-4S, part-load mixture and combustion are improved by simultaneous injection from both systems without restricting flow.


Direct fuel injection into the combustion chamber offers improvements compared with upstream port injection, including higher compression ratios (enabled by latent heat effects) that provide a thermal efficiency advantage. Toyota says its D-4S further maximizes those benefits because its DGI injectors spray in a wide, double-fan-shape pattern that combines with the port-injected fuel “to provide an ideal mixture.”


“Most engines in North America use a charge motion control valve or high amounts of tumble or swirl in the port to generate a lot of charge motion,” Toyota Technical Center Senior Principle Engineer Dan Yerace says. “So when the fuel is injected, you get blending of the fuel and air for a very good mixture throughout the cylinder that approaches homogeneous.”
Toyota's approach for the 2GR-FSE engine was different.

“To maximize performance, our engineers decided to use the fuel delivery system to provide a homogenous mixture instead of taking the flow losses that you get from putting those mechanisms in the intake manifolds or cylinder heads,” Yerace says.
“By combining direct injection with port injection, and especially by designing the direct injectors to have the proper amount of fuel penetration and dispersion, they could get an even mixture throughout the chamber.”
_______________________________


Pretty cool. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a version that's RWD, LSD, 6MT, 2600lbs, $24,000. Cloth interior, hand crank windows, though I would like AC.


If the car does come in nice and light, 200Tq and 170HP would be more than enough to have a ton of fun in the car.
Bochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 05:07 PM   #2
scape
Senior Member
 
scape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: yaris
Location: sc
Posts: 144
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
d4-s, what do we know?

just to get an idea of what d4-s might change for the regular 2.0L NA subaru h4 engine; I looked up what it has done to preexisting engines.

http://www2.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/env...rtrain/engine/

looking at the GR engine family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GR_engine, which many of them already use this technology (starting in 2004 it seems) a prediction might be able to be pulled out of the numbers already known by comparing non-d4-s engines to their similar counterpart. (FSE is the engine with D4-s) (hp/ft-lbf)

2gr (3.5L) FE(268/248) FSE(311/278) +43HP/30ft-lbf

3gr (3.0) FE(228/221) FSE(252/231) +24HP/10ft-lbf

5gr (2.5) FE(194/179), 4gr (2.5) FSE(212/192) +18HP/13ft-lbf

as we can see, the benefits of d4-s are lower in smaller engine types, but does appear it may bump a 2.0L engine by around 5-10 HP, 10-15 ft-lbf from stock, these of course are not H4 boxer engines but rather V6's..

so the 2.0L NA stock boxer engine puts out around 150HP as is, and a little less in torque.
however, there is a jdm version of this engine that has AVCS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCS and puts out 190HP; I also can barely find info on this engine (EJ20(r?) with AVCS in naturally aspirating form).

so where does that leave things for speculation sake of what d4-s might improve upon these already designed subaru engines?
a 170HP/165ft-lbf engine
OR the possibility of
a 195-200HP(no idea on torque)
wrote about this here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...hp?t=32&page=4

i'm in beaufort, sc- btw, so when we get ft-86's we'll have to harangue eachother on whose car is faster while flying down 17 haha.
scape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 05:28 PM   #3
Bochet
( . ) ( . )
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: 2001 2.5RS 4Dr 5MT
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 52
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Nice! If you're ever up in Chas and see a Silver 2001 2.5RS Sedan cruising around, it's me.
Bochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 05:30 PM   #4
S2KtoFT86
Resident Post Whore
 
S2KtoFT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: 2022 WR BRZ
Location: Hickory, NC
Posts: 1,116
Thanks: 0
Thanked 55 Times in 54 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
^^ How far are you guys from NC. We should definitely get some NC, SC, Tennessee meets going on down the road.
__________________
Gavin

S2KtoFT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 05:31 PM   #5
Arcangel
Member
 
Arcangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: 09 Honda CiviC LX-S Sedan
Location: NJ
Posts: 60
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
even though this car is light I hope the HP at least 210 and torque close to the same. The genesis coupe is slow as hell with 210 hp in the 4 cyl, they can't launch this car like that
Arcangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 05:39 PM   #6
Bochet
( . ) ( . )
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: 2001 2.5RS 4Dr 5MT
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 52
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There's also some wondering about why the Genesis is turning in such slow numbers. Some suspect a power limiting between shifts to reduce shock to the drivetrain. I think C&D mentioned it, they also said it's incredibly inconsistent; some great launches resulted in slow quarters, some bad launches resulted in quick times, etc.

Look at the NC Miata, it's about 2600lbs and makes 170HP and runs a very respectable 0-60 (6.7) and 1/4 (15.2). With better aero and an engine with more torque (the Miata only makes 140lb/ft and 166HP), the FT should be able to hold its own. It's not going to be a machine made to run highway roll races, at least not as delivered from the factory.
Bochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 07:01 PM   #7
scape
Senior Member
 
scape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: yaris
Location: sc
Posts: 144
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
i like the future meets idea, i'm about 6-7 hours from raleigh i think...
scape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 06:55 AM   #8
aspera
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: SW20 MR2, bugeye WRX
Location: KC
Posts: 62
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Great post, OP.

So...new heads, new exhaust manifold, new intake manifold...maybe an entirely new engine? The 2.0L displacement has been said many times, but is this engine an evolution of the EJ-series or something brand new? Does it have timing belts or chains?

I'm having a hard time figuring out how all of that GDI hardware would fit between the frame rails. The EJ engine already has a big bore/small stroke to help it squeeze in there. Bolting on trick heads with two fuel injection systems per cylinder would make it even more cramped.

I'm starting to get the idea that Toyota's idea for the FT-86 is a 2 door coupe version of the Lexus IS 250 with a Toyota-fied flat four.
aspera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 11:49 AM   #9
scape
Senior Member
 
scape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: yaris
Location: sc
Posts: 144
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
i think on a performance standpoint, it will make some IS 250 owners jealous
scape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 03:51 AM   #10
bigbcraig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Drives: 2013 BRZ / 2015 WRX
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 232
Thanks: 2
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
not gonna lie... this is really, really old.
bigbcraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2010, 02:04 PM   #11
mrtodd
Techmology.
 
mrtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Drives: Scrapped project EH2
Location: Teh Mountains
Posts: 137
Thanks: 40
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So why did you bring it back from the dead?
mrtodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 04:28 AM   #12
bigbcraig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Drives: 2013 BRZ / 2015 WRX
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 232
Thanks: 2
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Hmm... yeah, last post was forever ago.

Don't know why it had showed up on the threads page for me then???
bigbcraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 08:54 AM   #13
BoostJunkie
RaggedEdge Autosports
 
BoostJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Drives: 97 APU Supra
Location: Houston
Posts: 872
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcangel View Post
even though this car is light I hope the HP at least 210 and torque close to the same. The genesis coupe is slow as hell with 210 hp in the 4 cyl, they can't launch this car like that
Yeah but correct me if I'm wrong the genisis isn't as light
__________________
Red JZA80 APU Supra 800whp
White 07 Turbo Si 411whp *RIP*

BoostJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2010, 10:32 AM   #14
C-Bone
Senior Member
 
C-Bone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Drives: '03 Tiburon
Location: Washington State
Posts: 413
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostJunkie View Post
Yeah but correct me if I'm wrong the genisis isn't as light
I was thinking that too it looks pretty big. according to kbb curb weight is 3294 lbs
__________________
C-Bone is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.