Snow tires

[StarFox101]

Hello, this may sound like a silly question.

But should I get snow tires? I live in Southern Va - Norfolk. Right now I have the stock tires for my 17, so I'm not sure.
It probably snows between 2-3 times in our winter - 1-6 inches - at the most.

I'm just contemplating if it's a worthy investment..

[why?]

Do you have to go to work if it snows? Or do they cancel everything?.

Do you have a second car you can take instead?

Do you have the space and the room to keep an extra set of wheels and tires, and can you put them on yourself?

If you can and you see near freezing temps you can go on tirerack and buy an inexpensive set of wheels and general altimax artic winter tires for about $800 or so. If it is your only car and you must get to work it is a hell of a lot less expensive than buying a second car, and these cars are awesome in the snow.

[track junkie]

This will help you decide.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDGt1oyYlLs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDGt1oyYlLs[/ame]

[FlipperBizkut]

That video is pretty wild. So... where I live, there is little to no snow during the year. However, it does get pretty cold. Do road temperatures have that big of an impact, or is it just snow/ice that one needs to be concerned with?

I will likely stay home if there is any snow/ice, but this is my only car, and I will be driving it in the cold.

[StarFox101]

Yeah, video has my nervous now. But usually when it snows, everything closes and I work from home.

I'm leaning on getting snow tires..but it usually only snows in Jan and early Feb..by the time March rolls around temps are starting to rise back up. So just wasn't sure if any Southerner's or Virginians experienced driving with summer's all year.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by FlipperBizkut

That video is pretty wild. So... where I live, there is little to no snow during the year. However, it does get pretty cold. Do road temperatures have that big of an impact, or is it just snow/ice that one needs to be concerned with?

I will likely stay home if there is any snow/ice, but this is my only car, and I will be driving it in the cold.

The OEM tires are summer tires, and not great ones at that. Cold weather turns them into ice cubes. If you don't get conditions that would warrant an actual winter tire (snow, ice, slush, etc...) then a decent all season would be fine and handle much better than a winter tire would. It would do ok on slush and snow, but not great. That's what winter tires are for.

[Stang70Fastback]

To copy a post I wrote on Facebook:

Winter is coming, and I'm starting to see the re-emergence of the same question we get every year, along with the same uneducated replies in the comments underneath. I am posting this to educate as many of you as I can, so that you can help spread the CORRECT information, and shut down any misinformation before it becomes "gospel."

Q: "Do I need snow tires to drive in the snow, or will I be fine on the stock tires?"

A: Our cars came equipped with two different tires. A few Toyobarus came equipped with Bridgestone Turanza All-Season Tires. The majority of our cars, however, came with Michelin Primacy HP Summer Tires (the "Prius tires," as they are affectionately called.) It is those of you riding on the Primacys to which this post is primarily directed.

First off, the Primacy is a SUMMER TIRE. It isn't a Michelin Pilot Super Sport, or a ZII Star Spec, but it is, nonetheless, a SUMMER TIRE. Summer tires are NOT INTENDED to be used in snow, ice, or even dry pavement below 40 degrees. At all. Ever. Don't believe me? Take a look at the Performance Ratings for the Primacy HP on TireRack's site. Notice that they don't even offer the OPTION of rating the performance of these tires in snow or ice. They are not meant for it, and they shouldn't be driven in it. EVER. End of story.

I'm repeating myself because this is something that not everyone seems to want to understand. One of the typical comments I see runs something along the lines of, "I drove through a snow storm on Primacys and I didn't have any problems. They're fine if you know how to drive." That's great. I will now make a comparative statement to demonstrate just how illogical that argument is: "I drove through a rain storm on racing slicks, and I didn't have any problems. They're fine if you know how to drive." Do you see how silly that statement sounds? It's bad logic at best. Just because you survived doing something incredibly careless, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Racing slicks are NOT meant for rain. Period. Likewise, summer tires are NOT meant for snow. Period. There is no debate to be had here. This isn't something you are allowed to have an opinion on. It is a FACT. The only reason it seems "okay" to have that viewpoint is because of the existence of all-season tires, which aren't great in the snow, but have conditioned people to "accept" poor traction in wintery conditions as a "fact of life."

So why do summer tires suck in the winter? "Summer tires have plenty of tread! They should be fine for light snow, right?" Wrong. Tread is important, but most people don't realize that the rubber compound is equally as important. Summer tires use a very stiff, hard rubber. This is great because it reduces flex in the tread blocks, and sidewalls, which provides good steering response, and also allows the tire to remain firm, and maintain grip in hot situations. However, when the temperature drops, that stiff rubber becomes VERY stiff... almost solid. So stiff, that the rubber becomes too hard to grip onto anything. They become, essentially, hockey pucks. This sounds like an exaggeration, but it isn't. In cold temperatures, they are only marginally better than the plastic wheels on the old Power Wheels you drove when you were 4.

Winter tires are made of a MUCH softer rubber compound. On a hot summer day, they almost feel like chewing gum; as though you could peel the tread off with your bare hands. This means that when the temperature drops, the rubber still stays compliant enough to actually do its job. Combine that with deeper tread blocks with lots of sipes, and you have a tire that can offer SIGNIFICANTLY more traction in the winter months.

Lastly, I want to reiterate that just because you can manage to to do something, doesn't mean it's an intelligent decision to do so. You certainly shouldn't recommend doing so to others. The "getting going" part of driving in the snow is all anyone ever seems to think about, but it's the stopping part that matters. "Well, I just leave an extra-long following distance between myself and the car ahead of me." Great. What do you do when the light turns yellow? The light that doesn't give you any more time to stop in the winter than it does in the summer? What if another idiot on summer tires slides out in front of you from a side street? Are you going to inconvenience everyone else on the road by driving everywhere at 5 MPH since your stopping distance at any higher speed is 3 blocks? Are you going to piss everyone else off on the road by taking 45 minutes to accelerate from every stop because you were too cheap to properly equip your car for the conditions?

If you are driving this car, you can afford a set of winter tires. You can get a brand new set delivered to your door, already mounted and balanced on steelies for $700 from TireRack. You can get a used set for many hundreds of dollars less than that. They are absolutely worth it. If you don't believe me, watch the video I've linked below (which also makes a good argument for why All-Season tires suck at everything.)

Winter tires provide so much more grip, that you can actually enjoy driving the car in the winter, and even have fun, rather than spend the entire time sweating bullets and managing the tiny amount of traction you have.

[~el~jefe~]

that's a good and clear right up. thank you. leaves no doubt.

[gramicci101]

Saying all seasons suck at everything because they're being driven on an ice rink and being compared to a tire made to drive on ice is very misleading. Winter tires are great when they're being driven in winter conditions. Driving on snow, slush, or ice? They're ideal. Driving on a clear road and it happens to be cold out? They're kind of squirrelly. And "if you're driving this car you can afford a second set of tires"? This isn't a Porsche. It isn't even an Audi. It's a $25K car, brand new. Used, they're mid-teens. They're not special.

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Saying all seasons suck at everything because they're being driven on an ice rink and being compared to a tire made to drive on ice is very misleading. Winter tires are great when they're being driven in winter conditions. Driving on snow, slush, or ice? They're ideal. Driving on a clear road and it happens to be cold out? They're kind of squirrelly. And "if you're driving this car you can afford a second set of tires"? This isn't a Porsche. It isn't even an Audi. It's a $25K car, brand new. Used, they're mid-teens. They're not special.

lol nice. Yeah, I wonder about the cornering at say 40 degrees on salty dry roads. hm. tirerack guy said Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 would be ideal for me. This seems to answer the problem of how winter tires suck for non bad weather. "Performance winter". Kinda cool. Also pricey (of course!).

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ed#testResults
Probably a lot of people too. I like how the tire and wheel forum is getting none of this. That forum is like a mix mash of weird crap I cannot decipher. Still probably should be there right?

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~

lol nice. Yeah, I wonder about the cornering at say 40 degrees on salty dry roads. hm. tirerack guy said Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 would be ideal for me. This seems to answer the problem of how winter tires suck for non bad weather. "Performance winter". Kinda cool. Also pricey (of course!).

That's why the Tirerack guy says they'll be ideal. He's selling you something; it's in his best interest to sell you the expensive one. In NYC, I would definitely want actual winter tires, because you guys can get some shitty winter weather. Read the reviews on the different winter tires though. There are plenty that will work just fine for less. Also consider 205/50-17. The General Altimax Arctic in 205/50 is $100 each and is rated the same with a ton more reviews.

[markitect]

For occasional snow, I think you would be better off getting a good all season tire. The primacy tires are not much better then a lot of all seasons. If the winter is over 50 most of the time I would not recommend snow tires, because they will get soft and wear out really fast. The reason they never have a life rating is because if you took them out in the summer you could destroy them very fast.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

And "if you're driving this car you can afford a second set of tires"? This isn't a Porsche. It isn't even an Audi. It's a $25K car, brand new. Used, they're mid-teens. They're not special.

Disagree. If you can't afford to spend a few hundred dollars on tires to properly equip your car for the winter months (because the Primacys are NOT to be used below 40 degrees), then you cannot afford the car. If you don't have a few hundred dollars leeway in your budget, then you should have bought a $5k Corolla, or other daily driver.

Depending on where you live, winter tires should have been factored into your purchase price. I know they were in the back of my mind when I bought the car, as a Chicago resident. A second set of tires is NOT optional if the car comes with summer tires, and will be driven in wintery weather. It's like an oil change. It's something that is necessary, and "I can't afford it" isn't an excuse.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

To copy a post I wrote on Facebook:

Perfect! Almost what I would write word for word (except your grammar is better).
I don't understand how this subject can even be debated with the wealth of information that is available on the differences between the three types of tires. I also will never cease to be amazed that the otherwise very intelligent people that I have spoken to locally that feel they only need all seasons because "look at that tread it should chew through snow". Many of these people were standing by their decision while I was actively trying to push them out of one inch of snow with a little ice under it.