Problem after oil change...

[JuicyFruits]

Hi there.

I had my oil changed yesterday, and when I first started the car in the parking, the "oil pressure" light came on. It took about 10 seconds and then it came off. That was kinda weird but I thought it was maybe a sensor acting up or something.

I drove home, then on the highway the oil pressure light came on again. I quickly pulled to the side. I verified the oil gauge (level was fine), oil filter was screwed tight, I got under the car and didnt notice any leaks. I started the car again and didn't notice any strange noise so I thought I'd just go slow and get home. I was almost home when the check engine light and slip light both came on too....

Once home, I opened the hood again and decided to unscrew the filter. When I took the filter off, I realized (to my horror) that there was a loose plastic piece completely obstructing the outlet tube. What the fuck. It looks like a plastic pin/clip or something. I screwed the filter back in place and gave it a go, the oil pressure light came off, but the CEL and slip light came on.



Now, everything is closed (its sunday...). I'll take my car back to toyota ASAP tomorow (and send the bill to the first garage, of course. ), but can anyone tell me what kind of damage could be caused?

The piece was 100% blocking the oil outlet... is there a safety valve or something that would allow the oil to bypass the filter? From what I read online, the oil bypass valve is usually in the filter itself... so if the outlet is blocked, it means that there's no oil going anywhere.

Help? :P

[humfrz]

Hello Juicyfruits ....... pretty scary 4th post .....

How far and how long did you drive your car between where you had it "serviced" and where you "unplugged" the filter ..... ??

If it wasn't too far ....... you might get lucky.

Worst case is you need a new engine.

And there is everywhere in between.

I just hope your engine handled the possible oil starvation OK.

PS ..... could you post a picture of the critter that was possibly blocking the filter tube ... ??


humfrz

[JuicyFruits]

yeah, really scary!

The drive home from that place is 10km. When the light came on, I'd say I had 2-3 km left. It was a short drive but yeah... I'm afraid that I could have damaged my engine. Hopefully toyota can tell me more tomorrow.

Here are some pictures. I'm really puzzled how that could even get in there. AFAIK, there's no plastic part inside oil filter cartridges? HOW can this even happen?

When I took the filter off, that round "base" was sitting on the outlet tube entrance, blocking it. I guess it must have been loose inside the filter (causing the oil pressure light to turn on and off at first?) but then once it settled, the suction kept it in place.

[Ultramaroon]

I have no idea what that part is. I've never seen anything like it.

One of the standard practices I've drilled into everyone in my family is to pull off of the road and kill the engine as soon as they see the oil light even flicker.

The oil can icon should be replaced instead with $$ because that's basically what it means. I'm sorry but it had to be said. This is pretty awful. Save every slip of paper. At a bare minimum, I would insist on the dealer inspecting the rod journals for wear and proceeding as required - all on the other company's dime, of course.

I wouldn't trust that engine for a milk run at this point.

[humfrz]

hmmmm...........like @Ultramaroon, I have no idea of what that object is/was for/off of.

But, it sure as heck shouldn't have been where it was. Your best source of information is to ask the tech that did your filter change (if he still works there), if he knows what it is and how it got there.

As far as possible engine damage ...... it's hard to tell. Driving 3-10 km with that thing bobbing around there sure didn't do the engine any good. However, maybe enough oil got to the bearings that there wasn't any damage.

What kind of place serviced your car; a dealership, a Speedy-Lub type place or a auto shop .... ??

Back in the day, when this happened, we would fill it up with oil, take it up on the highway, drive it as fast as it would go for some distance ........ and if a rod wasn't knocking by then ........ call it good (well at least lucky).


humfrz

[humfrz]

Well, @JuicyFruits , my latest theory is that "thing" may be the filters bypass valve.

But, if it is, I don't know how it got to the bottom of the filter.

If my theory is correct, you may wish to change that filter before you drive it any further.


humfrz

[JuicyFruits]

Thank you!

It looks a lot like that small black part in your picture. Maybe the bypass valve failed and fell / got sucked in. Thats very interesting.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Back in the day, when this happened, we would fill it up with oil, take it up on the highway, drive it as fast as it would go for some distance ........ and if a rod wasn't knocking by then ........ call it good (well at least lucky).

I've never thought about that. Makes perfect sense.

*slaps forehead* So simple!

Originally Posted by humfrz

If my theory is correct, you may wish to change that filter before you drive it any further.

I wonder if there wasn't something else sucked in. 0.o

[ZionsWrath]

If I were you id put that plastic but back where you found it in the filter. Screw the filter back on. And have it towed to the dealer. Sad to say they will just say "everything looks good". And deny if you mentioned what you found.

eh, guess its too late anyway

[zkv476]

Yes the bypass in the filter is the only bypass that still runs through the motor. The oil pump has a bypass but that dumps back into the pan. OEM pressure switch triggers at ~2psi, so just because the light was off doesn't mean you were getting adequate pressure unfortunately, but it wasn't 100% plugged and bone dry at least. Maybe enough for mixed lubrication but boundary lubrication also very likely. If you're lucky, there was enough oil flow and the oil was good enough to protect the bearings. Get a sample of the oil tested and see what comes up. I'd wager that the CEL/SL came on due to a AVCS cam positioning fault because they rely on oil pressure to function. If that's the case they shouldn't come back once codes are cleared and there's proper oil pressure.

[JuicyFruits]

Soooo.

@humfrz was right, that part was indeed a bypass valve! It was the valve from the OLD filter. What probably happened is that someone used pliers to remove the filter (crushing / distorting the filter ), the valve fell, and then they installed a new filter over it.

@zkv476 you are also right! Toyota checked the check engine codes and it was VVT codes.

They told me I was very lucky and that there was no damage done. I asked how they can be sure, the tech told me they verified the ECU and that there was no overheating, everything else was fine basically. He told me if there was damage, then another code would have came up. The guy told me that I shouldn't worry about it, he'd been worried if I drove around for a month or two like that, but only a few KMs wouldn't hurt anything.

So, that's it I guess. The inspection they did wasn't very "in depth" and I'd have liked them to verify more, but this car is a rental so I guess its not really worth the trouble.

[Ultramaroon]

There isn't a goddamn thing other than a visual inspection that would deny or confirm bottom end damage. GOD, I hate asshole dealers.

Do what @humfrz said. Go cruise in third gear at around 5K RPM for an extended period. Do some pulls to redline and see if it spins a bearing.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by JuicyFruits

Soooo.............

but this car is a rental so I guess its not really worth the trouble.

Well, JuicyFruits ...... I reckon your car "got lucky" ......

The doo-doo that put a new filter on over the piece from the old filter, should be scolded and re-trained.

So, your car is "a rental" ...... is that a "leased" car .... ??

Now, the lesson to be learned (as pointed out by @Ultramaroon a few posts back), is when the oil pressure light even blinks at you ..... shut off the engine .....

Back in the day, when we had an oil pressure gauge ........ if that sucker dropped to zero, it was engine off-coasting mode, just enough to get safely off the road.


humfrz

[stugray]

Originally Posted by JuicyFruits

Soooo.

@humfrz was right, that part was indeed a bypass valve! It was the valve from the OLD filter. What probably happened is that someone used pliers to remove the filter (crushing / distorting the filter ), the valve fell, and then they installed a new filter over it.

@zkv476 you are also right! Toyota checked the check engine codes and it was VVT codes.

They told me I was very lucky and that there was no damage done. I asked how they can be sure, the tech told me they verified the ECU and that there was no overheating, everything else was fine basically. He told me if there was damage, then another code would have came up. The guy told me that I shouldn't worry about it, he'd been worried if I drove around for a month or two like that, but only a few KMs wouldn't hurt anything.

So, that's it I guess. The inspection they did wasn't very "in depth" and I'd have liked them to verify more, but this car is a rental so I guess its not really worth the trouble.

If that was my car I would be furious!
Since it is a rental, oh well (bad for the next owner).


If it was my car I would make them put a note in the permanent record exactly what happened.
That way if the engine fails in another few thousand miles, they would eat it.


There is absolutely no way to tell if it damaged anything (short of inspecting the lower end bearings) AND (to the dumbass dealer) - there have been numerous catastrophic engine failures due to low or no oil and the ECU never threw a single code.


So their "technical rationale for no damage" is 100% Bullshit.