Some P&L EL love

[bfrank1972]

Hi all, added a P&L EL catted header (used) a couple months ago and thought I'd share my thoughts. I'm really happy with it:

Build: Really nice piece - welds look great, collector very smooth, flanges are thick and the whole thing seems to be quite well built/sturdy. Vband coupling makes it easier to bolt up and tweak the overpipe so it doesn't rub (required a little fiddling). Premium product IMHO.

Noise: Exhaust is otherwise stock except for a Greddy SP Elite axle back. It sounds *really* nice, exceeds my expectations. I liked the SP Elite for it's deeper/slightly louder than stock/mellow tone, but always thought it was still just a hair too tame. The headers gave it some edge - now the car has a much more aggressive/angry/exotic sound from 4K on. I now find myself cruising in traffic on the interstate between 4k and 5k sometimes, just to hear the sound. I was initially a little worried reading about some people's header experiences, but this is not too loud at all though.

Power: I was surprised, was expecting more noise, less torque dip, but nothing huge. What I got was no torque dip and pretty big surge in power around 4K. It seems that it's a little soggier than stock below 3k, but that might just be that it's so much stronger above 3k now. It really starts to rip approaching 4k, sound gets meaner, around 5.5k the torque 'wave' subsides a bit but definitely still pulls noticeably harder than before all the way to redline.

This is all on an off the shelf open flash tablet EL tune - and I figure there's more power to be had. This is a long tube design, and I doubt the current tune is fully optimized for this header.

Anyway anybody thinking about an EL header, I'm really impressed with this one (and catted too!). It really changes the character of the car to something more 'serious', and the new power curve makes the car way more entertaining to drive.

Next I have some billet power blocks to fatten up the upper RPM band!

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Next I have some billet power blocks to fatten up the upper RPM band!

Nice little write up! and just so you know increasing the runner length with those "power blocks" will bring the power band down into the lower RPM range and not "fatten" it up haha. Example: instead of making peak power at 7000rpm you will make the same/similar peak power but now at 6500rpm. However if they increase area under the curve then you will be increasing your usable power band therefore making your car faster.

edit: if you want more top end power shorter runners are the way to go, but you will lose power down low

[Cooperdh]

I just installed my P&L uncatted EL header last week. I too appreciated the quality build. I did some research before I purchased mine and ended up getting a great deal on a used one.

I have the TRD exhaust so my car was a bit loud already. After install, I immediately noticed it was louder. I could also feel a bit more vibration in my feet from the header. Being a bit paranoid, I thought maybe something was wrong with the install. I installed the stage 2 EL tune from OFT and after a few days, I got used to it. I am enjoying the increased performance as well.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Cooperdh

I just installed my P&L uncatted EL header last week. I too appreciated the quality build. I did some research before I purchased mine and ended up getting a great deal on a used one.

I have the TRD exhaust so my car was a bit loud already. After install, I immediately noticed it was louder. I could also feel a bit more vibration in my feet from the header. Being a bit paranoid, I thought maybe something was wrong with the install. I installed the stage 2 EL tune from OFT and after a few days, I got used to it. I am enjoying the increased performance as well.

Yeah you definitely hear and maybe feel the headers under your feet - it's part of the deal with aftermarket headers. It's not like these are thin walled headers either - they're pretty beefy (in a good way) but the shroud on the stock headers probably dampens the resonance quite a bit. Also if you're getting buzzing sound, even occasionally, then make sure your overpipe is not rubbing. I had a intermittent buzzing when the car was cold - then when it heated up I guess the expansion flexed everything enough to move it away from whatever it was touching. Loosened up the front pipe/midpipe connection, overpipe/header, and vband, put a jack under it and moved it up a little to sort my issue out. Definitely great bang for the buck with a used one around $500+/-

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by go_a_way1

Nice little write up! and just so you know increasing the runner length with those "power blocks" will bring the power band down into the lower RPM range and not "fatten" it up haha. Example: instead of making peak power at 7000rpm you will make the same/similar peak power but now at 6500rpm. However if they increase area under the curve then you will be increasing your usable power band therefore making your car faster.

edit: if you want more top end power shorter runners are the way to go, but you will lose power down low

Yah I'll have to see what my butt dyno says when I put them in. What I meant by upper RPM is 5000 up, yeah they shift the peak down a little and 7000+ suffers but I don't think I'll miss that 5 lb-ft 7000-7400 in daily driving I think tuning can bring that deficit back too - I think Moto-Mike has a good thread on them somewhere - we'll see.

[akyp]

I'm not entirely impressed by it with any of the OFT OTS tunes so I'm now in the process of dialing it in: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=147

Nothing wrong with the header itself, just apparently not enough folks using it with OFT.

I also got the P&L overpipe and it rubs the subframe occasionally during hard cornering to the left. Solved it with TRD engine mounts.

[BatStig]

Catted EL does seem to be a rarity. It's good to see some others with them as well! I installed mine (JDL) early in 2014 and have loved every second!

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by akyp

I'm not entirely impressed by it with any of the OFT OTS tunes so I'm now in the process of dialing it in: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=147

Nothing wrong with the header itself, just apparently not enough folks using it with OFT.

I also got the P&L overpipe and it rubs the subframe occasionally during hard cornering to the left. Solved it with TRD engine mounts.

Good stuff, I'm very interesting in what you've found so far. I'm not sure if I can find enough 'hobby' time, but I'd like to fine tune my setup once I add the power blocks as well. What's this cam timing 'tool' you mentioned in the other post?

[akyp]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Good stuff, I'm very interesting in what you've found so far. I'm not sure if I can find enough 'hobby' time, but I'd like to fine tune my setup once I add the power blocks as well. What's this cam timing 'tool' you mentioned in the other post?

It's part of the MAF scaling tool done by vgi: http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=32&t=10481

So far most of my effort went into finding the correct MAF scale such that AFR is consistently 0.3-0.5 richer than commanded in order to keep the knock sensors happy. I messed with the load limits to tame the lean spikes at lower rpms. You may or may not need to do the same as you may have different intake/exhaust components. Best to do a few WOT runs to see how your AFR plot looks first before making any changes.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by akyp

It's part of the MAF scaling tool done by vgi: http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=32&t=10481

So far most of my effort went into finding the correct MAF scale such that AFR is consistently 0.3-0.5 richer than commanded in order to keep the knock sensors happy. I messed with the load limits to tame the lean spikes at lower rpms. You may or may not need to do the same as you may have different intake/exhaust components. Best to do a few WOT runs to see how your AFR plot looks first before making any changes.

Great thank you - that's the plan. I always thought MAF needed to be re-scaled when changing the intake (intake is stock for me), but I never thought about doing so to change the overall fuel mixture (rather than editing the fuel tables). I have a lot of reading to do...

[Pointmutation]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Yeah you definitely hear and maybe feel the headers under your feet - it's part of the deal with aftermarket headers. It's not like these are thin walled headers either - they're pretty beefy (in a good way) but the shroud on the stock headers probably dampens the resonance quite a bit.

Just installed my P&L EL catted headers yesterday. My pedal is still mushy from the battery being disconnected and it was late so couldn't take it out for a spin much. One of the first things I noticed was the NVH under my feet. It's not much but definitely there.
I still have my OFT stage 1 tune flashed. Debating if I should play with it on Stage 1 for now or just flash into Stage 2 and monitor and see. Did you try it on Stage 1 before going Stage 2?

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Pointmutation

Just installed my P&L EL catted headers yesterday. My pedal is still mushy from the battery being disconnected and it was late so couldn't take it out for a spin much. One of the first things I noticed was the NVH under my feet. It's not much but definitely there.
I still have my OFT stage 1 tune flashed. Debating if I should play with it on Stage 1 for now or just flash into Stage 2 and monitor and see. Did you try it on Stage 1 before going Stage 2?

Nope I just went stage 2, I think Shiv says you can run the EL Stage 2 on the stock header - I run EL Stage 2 with the P&L and love it. The sound 'under your feet' happens with just about any unshielded aftermarket header. It's right there under you and also the undertray reflects noise back up as well. I noticed it for a couple days, then I just stopped noticing it. I'd say switch it to stage 2, let the tune settle for a few days of driving - I noticed a pretty big surge after 3500 rpm, and then 6000+ another big surge. Changed the car completely.

[Pointmutation]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

I'd say switch it to stage 2, let the tune settle for a few days of driving - I noticed a pretty big surge after 3500 rpm, and then 6000+ another big surge. Changed the car completely.

Ok, so I switched to the Stage 2 EL tune and been on it for a few days. Definitely like it better than Stage 1. Sound wise, Stage 2 sounds better to me than Stage 1 did, less drone in Stage 2 how/where I drive. Dropping gear and letting the engine rev high in a tunnel sounds amazing now. Haha. I notice I'm driving with my window open nowadays, just to listen to the exhaust. Definitely louder, in a good way, but not obnoxious when driving civilized.

I also have the HKS CBE and dual resonated FP. At very low rpms, like when gently parking, the car is definitely less boomy than it was with only the CBE+FP, which is good (for my neighbors anyways).

I modded the tune file to tone down the cold start, which still has a little presence but not enough to piss off the neighbors too much. Lol. Still need to do some more data logging and tweak the tune now.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Pointmutation

Ok, so I switched to the Stage 2 EL tune and been on it for a few days. Definitely like it better than Stage 1. Sound wise, Stage 2 sounds better to me than Stage 1 did, less drone in Stage 2 how/where I drive. Dropping gear and letting the engine rev high in a tunnel sounds amazing now. Haha. I notice I'm driving with my window open nowadays, just to listen to the exhaust. Definitely louder, in a good way, but not obnoxious when driving civilized.

I also have the HKS CBE and dual resonated FP. At very low rpms, like when gently parking, the car is definitely less boomy than it was with only the CBE+FP, which is good (for my neighbors anyways).

I modded the tune file to tone down the cold start, which still has a little presence but not enough to piss off the neighbors too much. Lol. Still need to do some more data logging and tweak the tune now.

Cool! I think this thing is one of the most under-rated headers out there, really nice quality, long tube, option for a high flow cat/ceramic coating. Car is so much quicker and more fun in everyday driving than before, and it has a really nice sound especially around 5k+ where it just howls. Everything else on my car is stock except a Greddy SP Elite axle back, so my cold start isn't too bad