Shifting with a manual...

[Jen]

I was wondering how you guys stop. I have been off from work and have had more time than usual so I've been looking up basic pointers on the internet. I have always downshifted and then put the car in neutral once I'm in second and approaching the stop. Online, a bunch of sites are saying that this is bad for the engine and transmission. I stop the same way on my motorcycle, but don't go into neutral and shift down to first and stay in first holding the clutch in at a stop.

The other websites are suggesting that you should just shift into neutral and use the brakes, not downshift and engine brake. I do this on side streets, but not when I'm on a road where you are picking up some speed (30+ mph). Other people are saying that this is dangerous if you need to get out of the way. In neutral, if you are moving, you can shift into first anyway, so I don't really see the danger.

Anyway, what do you guys normally do when approaching a stop?

[husker741]

Downshift through the gears to 2nd, neutral at like 10mph, coast to stop. Floor it and leave everyone in the dust. Repeat.

[J_kennington]

Depends on the situation I guess. Most of the time I'll pop into neutral and use brakes to stop. If I have a "sudden stop" I'll down shift a gear to let the engine help.

To my knowledge on modern transmissions it doesn't matter which one you choose.

[Assphalt]

I usually downshift and use the gears as a brake for the most part, I have done this since I started and I have never had any premature wearing of the engine or clutch with any of my cars.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[wheelhaus]

On the bike, I rev match downshift every time I slow down or stop. Also, I always leave it in 1st just in case I need to get out of the way or shoot between two cars to avoid being run over. I've heard tires screeching behind me a couple times, and it's unnerving... So, on the bike I err on the side of safety and leave it in gear, holding the clutch lever. Clutch maintenance is far easier on the bike should it be needed.

In the car, I also rev match and double clutch nearly every downshift. Around town I'm not engine braking at 7k rpm, more like 3-4k at most and it's only as I'm slowing down. So the engine braking being bad for the car IMO, is an extremist point of view. I prefer to maintain speed and momentum, so I will downshift in anticipation of turning, stopping, etc and be in a usable gear at all times. Once stopped, I put the stick in neutral and let the clutch out so I'm not constantly riding the throw out bearing. Clutch maintenance on the car is a much more intensive endeavor, so I like to preserve it as much as is reasonable.

Slightly different logic,

[Jen]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

On the bike, I rev match downshift every time I slow down or stop. Also, I always leave it in 1st just in case I need to get out of the way or shoot between two cars to avoid being run over. I've heard tires screeching behind me a couple times, and it's unnerving... So, on the bike I err on the side of safety and leave it in gear, holding the clutch lever. Clutch maintenance is far easier on the bike should it be needed.

In the car, I also rev match and double clutch nearly every downshift. Around town I'm not engine braking at 7k rpm, more like 3-4k at most and it's only as I'm slowing down. So the engine braking being bad for the car IMO, is an extremist point of view. I prefer to maintain speed and momentum, so I will downshift in anticipation of turning, stopping, etc and be in a usable gear at all times. Once stopped, I put the stick in neutral and let the clutch out so I'm not constantly riding the throw out bearing. Clutch maintenance on the car is a much more intensive endeavor, so I like to preserve it as much as is reasonable.

Slightly different logic,

Yeah, I agree with you and this is how I drive and ride my mc, except for the double clutching, that's beyond me right now! Have you driven trucks? I think that's how the big rig guys need to drive.

Since I'm in the break in period on my car, I'm overly paranoid and don't want to hurt it. Shifting to neutral to stop without down shifting just seems weird to me. I do it, but just when I'm going slow and am in a low gear anyway.

[Chad11491]

I just let the engine slow itself down while in gear. I don't downshift, just let it spool itself down and go into neutral when it's ~ 800 rpm. I don't really get the point of downshifting when stopping? I must be missing something.

[Jen]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

I just let the engine slow itself down while in gear. I don't downshift, just let it spool itself down and go into neutral when it's ~ 800 rpm. I don't really get the point of downshifting when stopping? I must be missing something.

You can be in the proper gear for your speed in case you need to get the heck out to avoid a bad situation.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Chad11491

I just let the engine slow itself down while in gear. I don't downshift, just let it spool itself down and go into neutral when it's ~ 800 rpm. I don't really get the point of downshifting when stopping? I must be missing something.

Engine slow itself down to 800 rpm? Are you one of those drivers on a 1 mile stretch of road where it takes you 1/2 a mile to get to the speed limit and the rest of the way you're slowing down for the stop?

Down shifting while stopping. Down shifting/Engine breaking to aid in slowing the car.

[tahdizzle]

When I need to slow down. I break, press the clutch, and run the gears sequentially down to 2nd, or 1st if its a complete stop.

I only engine break when I absolutely need to. Like "OMG! Dunno if I'm gonna make this one moments".

[dirtymax]

Brakes only. I keep it in the same gear with clutch in until almost to a stop then neutral if I'm behind a car or right to neutral if I know how far to stop and there isnt anyone to worry about in front of me. Just harder to drop into the right gear in neutral if you need to make a correction. I use to down shift when I was younger but slowly changed to brake only to a stop

[subiestyle]

For those of you who downshift, you are presumably riding the brakes (even lightly) to flash your brake lights.

So you heel and toe every time you slow down, or don't even bother to rev match? BTW, heel and toeing while lightly pressing on the brakes is a bit more difficult.

I just keep the car in whatever gear I was in and brake. When revs hit 1K, clutch in and stop.

[Jen]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

For those of you who downshift, you are presumably riding the brakes (even lightly) to flash your brake lights.

So you heel and toe every time you slow down, or don't even bother to rev match? BTW, heel and toeing while lightly pressing on the brakes is a bit more difficult.

I just keep the car in whatever gear I was in and brake. When revs hit 1K, clutch in and stop.

On the car, I flash my brakes. On my bike, I don't use the brakes, just downshift- really bad habit. The only time I have ever felt the rear slip out on my bike was when braking and downshifting. You can definitely flash your brakes with the car without worrying too much about anything bad happening.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by Jen

Yeah, I agree with you and this is how I drive and ride my mc, except for the double clutching, that's beyond me right now! Have you driven trucks? I think that's how the big rig guys need to drive.

Since I'm in the break in period on my car, I'm overly paranoid and don't want to hurt it. Shifting to neutral to stop without down shifting just seems weird to me. I do it, but just when I'm going slow and am in a low gear anyway.

Well the motorcycle makes it impossible to double clutch since the gearbox is sequential, but rev matching works great. I've never driven a big rig, but it's a similar principle in the car. Rev matching is a great way to maintain the car's balance in two ways, 1: so you don't feel a surge of deceleration when you let the clutch out (this is really important mid-corner), and 2: so you're in a usable gear at all times.

If you care to know why/how:
Big rigs use a dog box, (similar to many race cars) which means it has big blocky teeth that engage to each gear, no synchros. When downshifting, the input shaft on the transmission needs to be at a higher rpm, but instead it naturally wants to slow down. Synchros work for you by speeding up or slowing down the input shaft (that's the bump you feel in the stick when picking a gear) by using friction, so after the bump, the stick drops right in. With a dog box, however, it'll clash and gnash and won't go into gear until the input and output parts of the transmission are near the same speed.

Here's where double clutching comes into play. If you're downshifting from 4th to 3rd, you use the engine to do what the synchros would do. You first push in the clutch, pause when the stick is in neutral. Let the clutch out. Blip the throttle (rev match). Push the clutch back in, select 3rd, and let the clutch out. What you've just done, is engage the transmission while it's in neutral, and used the engine to speed up the input shaft. Now when you select 3rd, the dog box is at a close enough rpm to drop right into gear, instead of clashing.

Even with a synchro transmission, you'll feel the difference. Since the input shaft is already at the correct "rev matched" speed, the synchro's job is already done. You feel little to no bump in the stick and it just falls into place.

Double clutch:
1: Clutch in, go to neutral
2: Clutch out, rev match
3: Clutch in, select lower gear
4: Clutch out, repeat if necessary or accelerate

Ideally this is done rather quickly while braking, (heel & toe). This is where you brake with the inside of your foot (typically the inside ball), and use the outer edge (or heel) to stab the gas pedal for the rev match blips.

The only point to doing this in a road car is for personal enjoyment,