Finally test drove an FR-S today... Evo IX owner

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Seeing how the car has been out for a while, another test drive thread probably isn't anything crazy, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents. The background info is that I have test driven a lot of cars (though not in the last couple of years) and have owned an Evo IX since I bought it brand new in February 2007, and before that I also had another Evo, then a variety of different vehicles. I'm not an Evo fanboy, but I'm a big fan of the platform and had test driven a lot of other cars before deciding on it. However, the current Evo X is also a great driver's car, but it's not as "raw" as any of the prior Evos and feels a tad watered down when it comes to what you do with the steering wheel. But if you drove one but had never driven an Evo VIII or IX, then there wouldn't be anything to dislike about the test drive.

Anyway, I've always been curious about the FR-S/BRZ (but had just never had the chance to test drive one until today) after reading some articles that compared it to my car. Edmunds/Inside Line said the following in two separate articles:

The FR-S's steering — although quite light — offers a granular precision not available since Mitsubishi's Evo IX disappeared.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...dont-know.html

When it comes to purity of purpose, you'll be hard-pressed to find a car that delivers this much speed and involvement under $50,000 — Mitsubishi's Evo X being one possible exception.

http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/brz/2013/road-test1.html

Both of those statements caught my attention, which I think was a huge compliment. There were times when I was thinking of getting something new, but I usually left test drives feeling a bit disappointed. A lot of cars were just as quick, but I REALLY love to use the steering wheel, and none of the cars I drove were as communicative. Those two quotes said that the FR-S was as precise as an Evo IX, and that in the given $50,000-and-under price range, the BRZ is probably the most involving car, with the current Evo X MAYBE offering something similar. Basically it confirms that the FR-S and BRZ are pretty awesome (and for the sake of this discussion, we'll go ahead and assume that they are identical behind the wheel) but also, indirectly, that the IX is better than the X (as it draws a comparison between the FR-S and Evo IX but says that the Evo X MIGHT be as involving as the BRZ).

So, here we go. I found an FR-S Series 10 at my local dealership (and it took forever to find the one with a manual) and got a chance to take it for a spin earlier today. The inside is much, much better than the standard interior of the FR-S (and BRZ Premium), but I won't dwell on that too much, especially since even the standard interior with the cheapo interior knobs is a step up from the Evo IX interior (though I still like my seats and steering wheel better). It was odd, but I felt it drove interestingly a lot like my Evo IX, as far as what happens when you use the steering wheel. The response was very similar (which is a good thing), except the nose obviously felt lighter and a tad more willing to turn. It's not to say that the Evo's nose won't turn, because that's obviously not the case with a car that slaloms at ~70 mph and usually pulls 0.95 g on the skidpad, but obviously the various LSDs have to kick in and work their magic, and you know it's going on, whereas the FR-S felt a lot more natural, which is pretty understandable.

Power-wise, it wasn't anything crazy, but it was MORE than enough for a very entertaining daily driver. Coming from a car that has 286 hp and 289 lb-ft stock, the FR-S was obviously not quite the same, but "slow" was NEVER a word that crossed my mind. The low- to mid-range delivery is very adequate (and much punchier than any non-K24 Honda VTEC four-cylinder in that same rev range), and the top end felt pretty nice. It was something that was enjoyable and could be easily exploited on a daily basis. My car is really fun, but by the time I have a big smile, I'm probably doing something well above the posted speed limit. However, I'm a practical driver who knows how to drive really well. I have fun when I want, but if I'm going to work or something, I will drive the car like it's my girlfriend's Corolla, as I'm not the type of person who feels the need to redline on the way to buy food. (If the route involved some nice corners, that's a different story.) The guys who say that the FR-S is slow are probably the idiots you see gunning it at every red light or flying past traffic on the freeway doing 90+ mph. You know, the ones who complain about how police are against them and/or their car. The ones who buy thousands of dollars' worth of mods but have never pushed their car to its limits when it was still stock and likely don't participate in any driving events.

BEFORE I test drove one, I already knew that if I were deprived of my Evo somehow (meaning it was somehow totaled), I was leaning toward getting an FR-S/BRZ over getting the current Evo X (or anything else on the market in a comparable price range, i.e. WRX/STI, 370Z, Genesis Coupe)... I'm not a big fan of buying used, particularly with sporty, fun cars, and likely wouldn't want to buy a used Evo IX (which I'd get as a replacement in the same hypothetical circumstance, if they were still made). Today's test drive confirmed that I was correct. With the same or similar budget, I would only get an FR-S or BRZ as a replacement car (though that would not happen if I still have my Evo IX -- it would only be a purchase alongside it) over everything else, unless I just got some insane promotion at work and was in a position to comfortably have two cars. (However, a much higher budget might allow me to consider something more high-end since they would be more feasible than now, but I'd still be hard-pressed to consider anything else unless it were an M3 or a Boxster/Cayman, both of which are already closer to being triple the price.)

Good job, Toyota/Subaru.

[E46toFT86]

Love the unbiased opinion

[wrxgoose]

I read the title, and expected: "fell in love"

read the post (mostly) and seems that I am damned close.

edit: you should definitely go for a ride along with someone who's got a modded 86, at the very least. Boosted if you can. Changes the dynamics completely, and it would still be cheaper (depending on what mods) than an Evo X

[DarkSunrise]

Good comparison. My friend used to have an Evo VIII and now that you mention it, the steering is pretty similar between the two cars. That car was a lot of fun bc of how raw it was vs. its competitors (STI, R32). Similar to the FR-S vs. other more refined cars like the Gen Coupe or GTI.

There's a certain charm about cars that distill everything down to the basic essence of driving.

[Sgt.Beardface]

Good honest review. And nice to see someone finally not talk about how "slow" the car is when compared to their current car! Awesome job.

-Chuck

[bear89103]

Thanks for the comparison!

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

The guys who say that the FR-S is slow are probably the idiots you see gunning it at every red light or flying past traffic on the freeway doing 90+ mph. You know, the ones who complain about how police are against them and/or their car. The ones who buy thousands of dollars' worth of mods but have never pushed their car to its limits when it was still stock and likely don't participate in any driving events.

I appreciated your review, but I take a fair amount of offense to this part of your review. Granted I don't think the car is exactly "slow" but its not fast in my opinion. Best I would say is that it's "quick". I haven't modded mine yet but I plan to in the near future. Additionally I do track my cars stock at HPDEs so I know what's what. I am a capable driver that can hang with just about any other stock vehicle (in my driving group) in the turns. But figuratively speaking, if my BRZ's handling gives me wood in the turns, when I get to a nice long straight I go limp.

[Acree]

Good review and comparison. I myself came from a 600hp Evo 9 daily driver to a BRZ Ltd. I've put more miles on my BRZ in the past 8 months than I put on the evo in 3 years. The steering feel truly is comparable, but I think the overall feel of the platform is no comparison. The BRZ is just more fun.

[CSG Mike]

Now if only the FA20 were as stout as the 4G63...

The FRS has enough power to putz around town, but it could certainly use a bit more oomph.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by wrxgoose

I read the title, and expected: "fell in love"

read the post (mostly) and seems that I am damned close.

edit: you should definitely go for a ride along with someone who's got a modded 86, at the very least. Boosted if you can. Changes the dynamics completely, and it would still be cheaper (depending on what mods) than an Evo X

Don't get me wrong, I really did like the car, but I expected myself to. I'm usually one of the defenders on a number of other forums when people complain about how they think it has too little hp, how it should cost $20k or whatever odd argument they have.

I'd like to ride in a modded one, at least one where they at least went with stickier rubber, even if everything else is stock. I have a pretty good sense of feel, and I'd say that the FR-S (and presumably BRZ) on stock tires is like driving an Evo IX with Hankook V112 Evo tires (which is my current setup and a little less direct than when I had the stock Advans or the now defunct Z1 Star Specs), so I'm sure even a decent summer tire (and not a super aggressive one) will make a huge difference, evident from some other comparisons I've read.

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Good comparison. My friend used to have an Evo VIII and now that you mention it, the steering is pretty similar between the two cars. That car was a lot of fun bc of how raw it was vs. its competitors (STI, R32). Similar to the FR-S vs. other more refined cars like the Gen Coupe or GTI.

Yup, I'm glad you know what I'm talking about. It's a different story compared to the Evo X, as the VIII and IX were always a bit more "connected."

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I appreciated your review, but I take a fair amount of offense to this part of your review. Granted I don't think the car is exactly "slow" but its not fast in my opinion. Best I would say is that it's "quick". I haven't modded mine yet but I plan to in the near future. Additionally I do track my cars stock at HPDEs so I know what's what. I am a capable driver that can hang with just about any other stock vehicle (in my driving group) in the turns.

Sorry that you felt that way, but I agree that it's not "fast," though I didn't feel the need to go too in depth since I figured everyone knew what I was talking about. It's just not as slow as some of the critics led me to believe, particularly those who went in different directions for cars that had a little more punch (i.e. Genesis Coupe 2.0T owners and such), though I knew that they were wrong the whole time, since I've seen enough magazine tests with the test results in certain ranges that I knew and did not consider to be "slow" but right on par for something with this kind of power, torque and weight.

Originally Posted by Andrew@Autolux

Good review and comparison. I myself came from a 600hp Evo 9 daily driver to a BRZ Ltd. I've put more miles on my BRZ in the past 8 months than I put on the evo in 3 years. The steering feel truly is comparable, but I think the overall feel of the platform is no comparison. The BRZ is just more fun.

Thanks. When my girlfriend got home from work, we talked about the car for a bit, but like me, she knows that there wouldn't be that much of a (good) reason for me to own both. But it was funny, since throughout the whole night, we kept quoting that Scion Series 10 commercial and saying "FR-S" in an autotuned manner, like in the commercial (assuming you have all seen it).

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Now if only the FA20 were as stout as the 4G63...

The FRS has enough power to putz around town, but it could certainly use a bit more oomph.

That's another thing. I wouldn't mind if it were faster, but it felt perfectly adequate on the test drive (which was a decent route that I was familiar with). That got me thinking, if it were indeed faster, then it would be a pretty insane car.

This past weekend, I went on an office trip to Big Bear, and we took the front way (330 to the 18), for those of you familiar with the area. My stock Evo was pretty fun on the way up and climbed effortlessly, and I'm sure that the FR-S would've been fun too, but the uphill drive would've required it to really work, assuming you'd want to have fun... though I'd think that you might rarely get out of second gear if you want to kick ass. But I think the downhill would've been a little more fun in the FR-S, given its better balance and lighter weight. But I guess I can't confirm that until I try that route in both cars, hehe.

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

D
I'd like to ride in a modded one, at least one where they at least went with stickier rubber, even if everything else is stock. I have a pretty good sense of feel, and I'd say that the FR-S (and presumably BRZ) on stock tires is like driving an Evo IX with Hankook V112 Evo tires (which is my current setup and a little less direct than when I had the stock Advans or the now defunct Z1 Star Specs), so I'm sure even a decent summer tire (and not a super aggressive one) will make a huge difference, evident from some other comparisons I've read.

This past weekend, I went on an office trip to Big Bear, and we took the front way (330 to the 18), for those of you familiar with the area. My stock Evo was pretty fun on the way up and climbed effortlessly, and I'm sure that the FR-S would've been fun too, but the uphill drive would've required it to really work, assuming you'd want to have fun... though I'd think that you might rarely get out of second gear if you want to kick ass. But I think the downhill would've been a little more fun in the FR-S, given its better balance and lighter weight. But I guess I can't confirm that until I try that route in both cars, hehe.

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback.

I can arrange for a ride.

And the FRS/BRZ struggles going up hills. Ive driven it up the 241 toll road countless times, and up the grapevine at least 5 times. It will LOSE speed in 6th gear, even at freeway speeds (in the meat of the torque band), at WOT. You have to sit in 5th to be able to even maintain speed, and 4th if you want to have any sort of acceleration.

[Acree]

Hah, the beauty of a turbo. Sea level pressure at any altitude.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I can arrange for a ride.

And the FRS/BRZ struggles going up hills. Ive driven it up the 241 toll road countless times, and up the grapevine at least 5 times. It will LOSE speed in 6th gear, even at freeway speeds (in the meat of the torque band), at WOT. You have to sit in 5th to be able to even maintain speed, and 4th if you want to have any sort of acceleration.

Nice, where in OC are you? I'm in Irvine but I work in Costa Mesa.

That's one thing that I always thought was cool about having a turbocharged car. I rarely go to the two areas you mentioned, but my family lives in Ventura County, so I'll always pass through the grade on the 101 between Camarillo and Newbury Park. I can go uphill without needing to downshift, as long as I'm keeping the rpms north of maybe 3200 rpm (which basically means I need to be going at least 70 mph). I remember when I had a Honda, drove my brother's Honda or my parents' E320 (which I did have for a few months when I was in college maybe ten years ago), I'd definitely need to drop a gear.

Originally Posted by Andrew@Autolux

Hah, the beauty of a turbo. Sea level pressure at any altitude.

Yeah. I went up to Big Bear the easiest, though my boss in his 2012 BMW 550i (twin-turbo V-8) also had an easy drive. Everyone else who lagged behind just had NA cars that were likely losing steam.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

Nice, where in OC are you? I'm in Irvine but I work in Costa Mesa.

That's one thing that I always thought was cool about having a turbocharged car. I rarely go to the two areas you mentioned, but my family lives in Ventura County, so I'll always pass through the grade on the 101 between Camarillo and Newbury Park. I can go uphill without needing to downshift, as long as I'm keeping the rpms north of maybe 3200 rpm (which basically means I need to be going at least 70 mph). I remember when I had a Honda, drove my brother's Honda or my parents' E320 (which I did have for a few months when I was in college maybe ten years ago), I'd definitely need to drop a gear.


Yeah. I went up to Big Bear the easiest, though my boss in his 2012 BMW 550i (twin-turbo V-8) also had an easy drive. Everyone else who lagged behind just had NA cars that were likely losing steam.

I work in Irvine (WATG building across from the spectrum) and live by Fullerton. However, the car I'd be giving you a ride in isn't mine, and we'd need to be at a track to fully realize the benefits. Or a canyon. The grip is so ludicrously high that you can't push it at street legal speeds...