Track days & 2nd gear lockout

[rezanourai]

Took the new '22 BRZ out to Laguna Seca on Saturday for first track day in this car (not my first track day, I have a few other cars I regularly drive on track).

Overall impressions: really fun car that's easy to toss around and slightly slide around in, but definitely lacks a little bit of power on the straight. The stock Pilot Sport 4 (not 4S) tires are pretty limiting, but that can easily be fixed with better rubber if I take this car on track again. I had preemptively changed out brake fluid & pads. Overall, really fun car, and the LSD works great as you can really just floor the car on the way out of many turns and it keeps on rotating but totally controlled on the exit as long as you don't let off the gas.

This is a slower car than I'm used to driving on track, but it meant I could relax and have a lot more fun in the corners. All I could muster was a 1:52. I think with better tires the car can easily do sub 1:50, maybe 1:48 with just tires & otherwise stock setup.

However, I had one problem that was totally killing my lap times. Wondering if others have experienced this or know a solution: my 2nd gear lockout was being aggressive AF on track. Laguna has 2 hairpins (T2 and T11) where you are coming in at high speed and need to down shift (sometimes more than 1 gear) into 2nd to keep RPMs high on exit. My car would just not allow it. I could go 5->4 and 4->3 coming down from T1, but the only way it would let me do 3->2 is if I REALLY slowed down way too much for that turn, so I just gave up and kept taking T2 in 3rd gear. T11 was much worse. Here it still wouldn't let me drop to 2nd, so I took the turn in 3rd and then was screwed trying to go down the main straight at like 3500rpm in 3rd gear . Again, if I slowed down way too much, I could drop it into 2nd, but then I had lost more speed than necessary into the turns. Really annoying. Probably the single most annoying aspect of the car, and likely costing me at least a 0.5-1s (especially that T11 exit into the straight in the wrong gear).

Here's a pic from the day.

[rezanourai]

Here's a video clip of the best lap of the day. My buddy was in the car with me, and you can hear him comment on how on the edge it felt like we were driving, slipping around on the turns. But in the video you can hardly tell at all LOL.

NOTE: for some reason the lap timer app data is out of sync with the video & audio by a few seconds, so the speeds on screen are for a few seconds in the future (or behind, don't remember) of the moment you're seeing in the video.

[Arthur-A]

Never had a problem downshifting into any gear, even the 1st gear while moving when double clutching in combination with heal-toe. If I understood the issue correctly.

[rezanourai]

I didn't try double clutching (didn't need to for other gears when heal toeing). I read on another post in this forum that sometimes if you don't rev up the engine high enough it can prevent from shifting into 2nd. I've never heard of that before (I thought all lockouts were car speed based) but it's worth trying. Maybe revving it up higher & possibly double clutching is the solution. Will try next time at the track

[zeroomega]

A gen 1 2017 stock performance package BRZ with GT Radial SX2 tires (a bit less grippier than the PS4 tires from higher trim gen2) can do 1:49.x at Laguna with a pro racer and a passenger on board. Gen1 86DriveChallenge stock class record at Laguna is currently 1:50.78. Gen 2 car can definitely get into 1:50 in its stock form consider it has 15% more power and a stickier tire from factory. The brakes probably won't stand a few laps at Laguna though.

I haven't driven a gen2 car. But on my gen 1 FR-S, I don't have trouble to shift to 2 at T2 at Laguna. Not matter if it is 4-3-2 or 4-2. It feels a bit rough at outlap when the transmission is cold but it never seems to be an issue when the car is fully warmed up. I never feels I need to do double clutch when downshifting on this car.

One thing you could consider to change is the trans fluid. I currently use Motul 300V and I like it on the track. But when transmission is cold, it does not feel so well compared to the OEM fluid.

[Arthur-A]

Originally Posted by rezanourai

I didn't try double clutching (didn't need to for other gears when heal toeing). I read on another post in this forum that sometimes if you don't rev up the engine high enough it can prevent from shifting into 2nd. I've never heard of that before (I thought all lockouts were car speed based) but it's worth trying. Maybe revving it up higher & possibly double clutching is the solution. Will try next time at the track

Double clutching plus revving up and it'll engage like a hot knife in a butter.

[soundman98]

Can't specifically say about the 2nd gen, but 1st gen will always go into any gear once warmed up as long as the rev match is within about 500rpm of ideal.

Going from 4th to second can sometimes be tricky just getting the rev range right

[gen3v8]

Originally Posted by soundman98

Going from 4th to second can sometimes be tricky just getting the rev range right

It`s fairly obvious, to me anyway, Delay the shift some untill the gear, car and you are right for it.
You don`t just go from 4th with high rpm into 2nd. You can`t.

[Stonehorsw]

Never had this issue on Gen1, have on high decel or left turns sometimes on gen2. Other people that race had the same issue on my gen2.

[MMoore4545]

Was going to chime in here too.

Loading the passenger side front wheel in left turns going from 1st to 2nd has locked me out shifting at 6-6500. Only way to get into it is by dropping to 3rd or shifting back into 1st. Bouncing off the rev limiter in 1st before the shift has actually made it work but isn't ideal

Happened before and after mods:
Motul 300 gear oil
Perrin rear shifter bushing
Oem sti short shifter




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[timurrrr]

You should be able to take T2 in 3rd.
My 2017 BRZ has lower wheel torque than your 2022 at any speed, and yet I could powerslide out of T2 in 3rd on 245-wide SX2's.

As for T11, unfortunately the video doesn't show what you're doing with the shifter and how quickly you're trying to change gears, so my advice is based on my own experience with gen1 cars which have mostly the same gearbox.
Try going into the 2nd gear slower and gentler. When the shifter doesn't want to go into 2nd gear, keep gently pulling where it should go, and let the synchros do their work. The intermediate shaft needs to spin up ~1.5x times when going 3rd->2nd, and that takes time.
If just shifting slower is not enough — double clutch.

Also, if you're still running factory transmission fluid, consider upgrading.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by gen3v8

It`s fairly obvious, to me anyway, Delay the shift some untill the gear, car and you are right for it.
You don`t just go from 4th with high rpm into 2nd. You can`t.

on a cloverleaf i did do it, partly through misplaced enthusiasm. not so bad as long as you're willing to let the motor rev to 8000.

[rezanourai]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

You should be able to take T2 in 3rd.
My 2017 BRZ has lower wheel torque than your 2022 at any speed, and yet I could powerslide out of T2 in 3rd on 245-wide SX2's.

As for T11, unfortunately the video doesn't show what you're doing with the shifter and how quickly you're trying to change gears, so my advice is based on my own experience with gen1 cars which have mostly the same gearbox.
Try going into the 2nd gear slower and gentler. When the shifter doesn't want to go into 2nd gear, keep gently pulling where it should go, and let the synchros do their work. The intermediate shaft needs to spin up ~1.5x times when going 3rd->2nd, and that takes time.
If just shifting slower is not enough — double clutch.

Also, if you're still running factory transmission fluid, consider upgrading.

Thanks, yeah 3rd worked pretty well for T2. I could take it a bit faster I think but dropping to 2nd would probably immediately redline & need an upshift on exit. I am replacing diff & gearbox with Motul 300 in a couple weeks and then will try revving up higher & taking time going into 2nd next time out. Thanks for the tips.

[rezanourai]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

Never had this issue on Gen1, have on high decel or left turns sometimes on gen2. Other people that race had the same issue on my gen2.

interesting, so it's also on hard left turns for you too? Both T2 and T11 are left handers.