Auto Express MX-5 vs. GT86 Track Battle

[quik1987]

[ame]http://youtu.be/r2qL9mmBW4I[/ame]

[strat61caster]

inb4 tires

[SUB-FT86]

I never understood the arguments for these 2 cars. It's all about which flavor you want. Coupe or Roadster

[Fishbed77]

I never understood the arguments for these 2 cars. It's all about which flavor you want. Coupe or Roadster

Agreed. Both are great cars, but I really don't see them as direct competitors, and I don't really see a lot of folks cross-shopping between them.

They are both enthusiast cars, but with a totally different focus. The FR-S/BRZ can function as a primary car (hard roof, back seat, and trunk), whereas the MX-5 is a toy that works best as a 2nd or 3rd car.

Personally, I'm very glad that both exist, and I'm glad that the MX-5 betters the FR-S/BRZ in some very tangible ways (interior quality and acceleration, for example) as it gives Toyota/Subaru a reason to keep developing and improving the Twins.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

Agreed. Both are great cars, but I really don't see them as direct competitors, and I don't really see a lot of folks cross-shopping between them.

They are both enthusiast cars, but with a totally different focus. The FR-S/BRZ can function as a primary car (hard roof, back seat, and trunk), whereas the MX-5 is a toy that works best as a 2nd or 3rd car.

Personally, I'm very glad that both exist, and I'm glad that the MX-5 betters the FR-S/BRZ in some very tangible ways (interior quality and acceleration, for example) as it gives Toyota/Subaru a reason to keep developing and improving the Twins.

uhhhhhh.... they are like the closest cars to each other. I definitely think people will cross shop between them. For people who buy sports cars, convenience isn't always an important factor. if it has 2 extra or 2 less seats isn't really important to some poeple. I know it wasn't important for me. I cross shopped 2 seater and 4 seaters. (i know people who cross shop SUV, crossovers, and sedans). rwd, manual, <3000lbs, <$40k... just about only those 2 cars

[Fishbed77]

uhhhhhh.... they are like the closest cars to each other.

2-seat soft-top convertible roadster versus 2+2 sports coupe?

I don't think I have enough fingers to count all the 2+2 sports coupes that are closer in configuration to the FRS/BRZ than the MX-5 is (Genesis Coupe, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, all sorts of expensive BMWs, Infinitis, and Lexuses (Lexi?), not to mention front-wheel drive poser-mobiles). Many people have no desire at all to own a convertible.

For people who buy sports cars, convenience isn't always an important factor. if it has 2 extra or 2 less seats isn't really important to some poeple. I know it wasn't important for me.

Read my previous post. As a primary car (which the Twins are to many people), all these things matter. The fact is that it's very difficult for an MX-5 to serve as a primary car. That's what makes these fundamentally very different cars.

I cross shopped 2 seater and 4 seaters. (i know people who cross shop SUV, crossovers, and sedans). rwd, manual, <3000lbs, <$40k... just about only those 2 cars

Good for you. But I imagine at some point you narrowed that list down. Maybe you did narrow it to the FR-S and MX-5. That makes you a sample group of one.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

2-seat soft-top convertible roadster versus 2+2 sports coupe?

I don't think I have enough fingers to count all the 2+2 sports coupes that are closer in configuration to the FRS/BRZ than the MX-5 is (Genesis Coupe, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, all sorts of expensive BMWs, Infinitis, and Lexuses (Lexi?), not to mention front-wheel drive poser-mobiles). Many people have no desire at all to own a convertible.

Maybe you did narrow it to the FR-S and MX-5. That makes you a sample group of one.

How many of those are under $30k new, weigh less than 3,000 lbs, and have RWD?

Make that a sample group of 2.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

Good for you. But I imagine at some point you narrowed that list down. Maybe you did narrow it to the FR-S and MX-5. That makes you a sample group of one.

There were quite a few MX-5 owners who bought the twins. There are also a lot of twin owners over on the miata.net forums who are going from their twins to the ND.

You point out the obvious difference that one is a convertible and one is a coupe. A lot of buyers do not care about that. They are looking for relatively cheap, lightweight, fun sports cars and for right now, these are the only two that you can walk into a dealer and buy new. The comparison between the two is not only logical, it is inevitable.

The sample group is slightly bigger than one.

[C4RBON]

As pointed out, these cars have lots in common and will be cross-shopped by many people. I however couldn't live with a miata as my only car. No back seats (I use mine for storage and occasionally people, tiny trunk, and extra highway noise are the reasons why. As a 2nd car, either would be suitable.

As for the video, it irks me when people do 1 lap in each car and call the result conclusive. A .4s lead by either car after one lap is not enough to "declare" one car better on a track than another. They should have three drivers (novice, experienced, professional) do 5 laps each, and then give us some results. Then do it again on some real tires (like RE71s). People tracking their car regularly are not going to keep the stock tires.

[Rookie84]

I really like the new ND. It's the best looking Miata of all gens, it is very light and handles well. There will be plenty of aftermarket support if you desire more performance.

But to me, a fun car has to be usable in many different situations so that I can get more chances to enjoy the car. Simply for this reason, as much as I like the new ND, I don't think I will make the jump as I'd like to be able to fit both my wife and child in the car so that I have more chances of driving my car. With a 2-seater, I'll only be able to drive it once or twice a week.

[Speed2th]

MX-5 crash test
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar171428.html

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by C4RBON

....
As for the video, it irks me when people do 1 lap in each car and call the result conclusive. A .4s lead by either car after one lap is not enough to "declare" one car better on a track than another. They should have three drivers (novice, experienced, professional) do 5 laps each, and then give us some results. Then do it again on some real tires (like RE71s). People tracking their car regularly are not going to keep the stock tires.

Agreed.
Doing a top gear type track test is not a test. It's just commenting while driving
The actual test is when they give it to the stig

In that vid he should have shut up and drive. And not fuck up by shifting into 4th. And not do one lap.


To me it's when I was in the market for a new car I didn't care about a back seat what it came down to was the price and if I like convertibles. I hate convertibles so that's why I'm here.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

Agreed. Both are great cars, but I really don't see them as direct competitors, and I don't really see a lot of folks cross-shopping between them.

They are both enthusiast cars, but with a totally different focus. The FR-S/BRZ can function as a primary car (hard roof, back seat, and trunk), whereas the MX-5 is a toy that works best as a 2nd or 3rd car.

Personally, I'm very glad that both exist, and I'm glad that the MX-5 betters the FR-S/BRZ in some very tangible ways (interior quality and acceleration, for example) as it gives Toyota/Subaru a reason to keep developing and improving the Twins.

Check my thumbnail, and increase the sample size again...

If you think the Miata is too different from the 86 twins to be cross-shopped, then what would you cross-shop it with? There is no other car like it, the twins really are the closest thing. The MR2 is gone, the Skystice twins are gone, every other 2-seater except the 370Z is way more expensive, and I think the Z is less Miata-like than the 86.

Heck, just look at the title of this post. And look how many other links have been posted to articles doing the same comparison.

I'll also second the mention of lots of Miata owners buying up 86es. One year after the 86 launched, 17 of them showed up to the local autocross. It was like 25-30% of the field. And if you went on the club's message boards, the For Sale section was full of NBs and NCs. And it's true, on miata.net there are currently plenty of posts from former 86 owners who just bought an ND.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by C4RBON

As for the video, it irks me when people do 1 lap in each car and call the result conclusive. A .4s lead by either car after one lap is not enough to "declare" one car better on a track than another. They should have three drivers (novice, experienced, professional) do 5 laps each, and then give us some results. Then do it again on some real tires (like RE71s). People tracking their car regularly are not going to keep the stock tires.

Probably not feasible (time/cost-wise) to have 3 sets of drivers do 5 laps each. You'd also get very inconsistent times from the novice. But as far as professional drivers go, Sutcliffe is not bad. He's known for having put down comparable lap times to Honda factory test drivers in Formula 1 cars and had a brief racing career. I'd trust him to be fairly consistent, even if we're talking a 0.5 second difference.

It's also true nobody tracking regularly uses stock tires, but it would be way too expensive for publications to add track tires before every track test. Great idea, just not practical unfortunately.

As far as I can tell, the AutoExpress video is just meant to show which bone-stock car is faster around a given track. Given the results with Sutcliffe driving, I'd say the ND Miata is slightly quicker than the GT86 at Blyton Park. Unless you're competing in a showroom bone-stock racing series at Blyton Park though, I don't think that 0.5 second difference matters.