OpenFlash Tuning Tutorial: Crawford Billet Power Block Mapping changes

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by steve99

In this case 1.2 to 1.3 load and RPM 6100-6700 and the ECU is pulling about 2 degrees so remove about half that ie about 1 degree or slightly more from the cells in that area ie load 1.2-1.3 and rpm 6100-6700 area out of the Base_Timing_B table.

so what's going on here now? lol that RPM range is clear and now it's in the 2-3k range...IA seems to be 5-10* there which is low, is this just from chugging the engine in 3rd and below 2k RPM?
http://datazap.me/u/silver-ignition/...=0&data=1-4-12

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by steve99

http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5371.html

this article is exactly what I was looking for. Plain-English explanations of this alien technology lol

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

so what's going on here now? lol that RPM range is clear and now it's in the 2-3k range...IA seems to be 5-10* there which is low, is this just from chugging the engine in 3rd and below 2k RPM?
http://datazap.me/u/silver-ignition/...=0&data=1-4-12

When you trying to eliminate knock

the knock sensor is basicly a sensor tuned to recognize the sound frequency/vibration of knock. Sometimes it get's it wrong or some other noise/vibration/resonance "sounds" like knock to the sensor. Their have been cases where a washer/loose nut or vibrating exhaust has set of the knock sensor.

1. make sure its consisent or repeatable at a particular load/rpm point
2. if it only -0.7 or less it can be very difficult to eliminate completely especially in the 1500-3500 rpm range with these motors especially on throttle tip in.
3. If you jump on the gass at low rpm in high gear it probably going to get a bit of knock 0.7 or so.

4. log your STOCK tune and you will be surprised how much these motor knock on factory tune even with 93 fuel. I've seen stock tune pull -4 degrees and have IAM running at 0.7-0.6 running on 98RON fuel in city traffic low rpm high load.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

this article is exactly what I was looking for. Plain-English explanations of this alien technology lol

just be aware it aimed at WRX ie boosted the IAM is different 0-16 as opposed to 0-1 and they talk much richer AFR than BRZ/86 high rpm/load due boost.

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by steve99

When you trying to eliminate knock

the knock sensor is basicly a sensor tuned to recognize the sound frequency/vibration of knock. Sometimes it get's it wrong or some other noise/vibration/resonance "sounds" like knock to the sensor. Their have been cases where a washer/loose nut or vibrating exhaust has set of the knock sensor.

1. make sure its consisent or repeatable at a particular load/rpm point
2. if it only -0.7 or less it can be very difficult to eliminate completely especially in the 1500-3500 rpm range with these motors especially on throttle tip in.
3. If you jump on the gass at low rpm in high gear it probably going to get a bit of knock 0.7 or so.

4. log your STOCK tune and you will be surprised how much these motor knock on factory tune even with 93 fuel. I've seen stock tune pull -4 degrees and have IAM running at 0.7-0.6 running on 98RON fuel in city traffic low rpm high load.

still have it up high...
http://datazap.me/u/silver-ignition/88?log=0&data=1-12

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

still have it up high...
http://datazap.me/u/silver-ignition/88?log=0&data=1-12

Assume You have BPB and have made the BPB changes to timing maps,as the knock is occurring where the BPB map has been advanced by 3 degrees.

You might have to talk to shiv its best to email him (PM don't work), it looks like the BPB changes to recover the lost power at high RPM are not working for you, it might just be your fuel. Best to run it past shiv I think, you might just have to reverse the BPB changes.

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by steve99

Assume You have BPB and have made the BPB changes to timing maps,as the knock is occurring where the BPB map has been advanced by 3 degrees.

You might have to talk to shiv its best to email him (PM don't work), it looks like the BPB changes to recover the lost power at high RPM are not working for you, it might just be your fuel. Best to run it past shiv I think, you might just have to reverse the BPB changes.

@Shiv@Openflash? What do you think?

I guess I could upload a non-BPB map and see what happens, right?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

@Shiv@Openflash? What do you think?

I guess I could upload a non-BPB map and see what happens, right?

I can't see it being a problem other than the power past 6000 may be down a bit but if its pulling timing anyway their won't be much difference.

the whole idea of the BPB was to bring the powerband lower in the rpm range anyway.

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by steve99

I can't see it being a problem other than the power past 6000 may be down a bit but if its pulling timing anyway their won't be much difference.

the whole idea of the BPB was to bring the powerband lower in the rpm range anyway.

Okay here's the Stage 1 93 tune on 93 fuel
http://datazap.me/u/silver-ignition/...=0&data=1-4-12

I'll try Stage 1 91 tune on 93 fuel tomorrow

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

Okay here's the Stage 1 93 tune on 93 fuel
http://datazap.me/u/silver-ignition/...=0&data=1-4-12

I'll try Stage 1 91 tune on 93 fuel tomorrow

Shiv kind of suggested the additional timing advance may be an issue for some people

From Shiv's Original Post in this thread

"Step 7: Take some datalogs of 3rd gear WOT runs (2000-7500rpm) and confirm that there is little to no knock correction. Especially above 6000rpm where you made the adjustments."


Shiv has to cater for varying conditions and fuels and its much easier to see where to pull timing than where you can add it without a dyno and extensive knowledge and we need to keep in mind these are OTS maps.

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by steve99

Shiv kind of suggested the additional timing advance may be an issue for some people

From Shiv's Original Post in this thread

"Step 7: Take some datalogs of 3rd gear WOT runs (2000-7500rpm) and confirm that there is little to no knock correction. Especially above 6000rpm where you made the adjustments."


Shiv has to cater for varying conditions and fuels and its much easier to see where to pull timing than where you can add it without a dyno and extensive knowledge and we need to keep in mind these are OTS maps.

Yeahh I hear you. Would it be a good idea to run these tunes for a few days and a few hard runs to see if the timing comes back up? Am I tainting the diagnostic process by changing tunes every day?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

Yeahh I hear you. Would it be a good idea to run these tunes for a few days and a few hard runs to see if the timing comes back up? Am I tainting the diagnostic process by changing tunes every day?

My experience is ECU learning is pretty quick, 20 minutes normal driving is plenty even less if fuel trims (MAF Scaling) is good, the Knock correction tables fill very quickly and if your running the right fuel/tune they shouldn't be needed much anyway.

If you were running lean due fuel trims may impact on knock, but you look plenty rich up top end and fuel trims look fine around 3%

The main impediment to learning fuel trims is driving the car hard and WOT straight up, ECU only learns fuel trims in "closed" loop mode this is when your idling, smooth/steady throttle movements and cruising. If you fuel trims are less than about 4% it not going to get any better.

If you do 2 or 3 "vishnu reset" runs ie partial light (20% or so) steady throttle runs from 2000-5000rpm or so in 3rd it will set your fuel trims and reset you IAM (assuming is not knocking) if its less than 1. The gear is not rearly important its the partial steady throttle the longer the run the better. A slight uphill grade can be useful (or you can left foot brake). This works anytime to reset IAM back to 1 (assuming its not knocking at light load) it usefull when your chasing knock in an area and want IAM back to 1.

[Silver Ignition]

odd…so I flashed back to the Stage 1 91 tune with BPB changes and no other modifications and I now have FLKC, IAM and Knock Correction all flatlined so far…gonna keep data logging. As outlined in that one article I changed my retard settings to 1.01 and my advance settings to .20 to easier keep track of how often it's retarding and advancing timing

[silverbullet]

I've been having the same issue with knock between 5800-6800 with the 93 tune with BPB modifications. Been trying to tune it out for a week. I've pulled about 3 degrees of timing in that area and I'm already running plenty rich and still getting the knock. I'm going to try the 91 tune with 93 octane later today, hopefully it helps.