GT5 vs Forza 4

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by LexusFman

#1- I don't know about F4 but I played F3 and oh boy it feels like Ice skating. There is no feel for the road what so ever. GT1 does it better than Forza. They need to fix that shit quick.

#2- In order to actually make the game take skill, I had to take off so many assists like automatic braking. Why? Even need for speed dosen't brake the car for you. Racing sims aren't for casuals. Just No.

#3- The graphics are lame as hell. It might be because I was playing on a shit projector but from what I could see not even close to GT5. Hell, not even close to NFS Shift 2.

1.) I don't have a skating feeling at all in F4. I drive in the car though, racing outside of the car doesn't feel quite as right ever since I switched.
2.) If you cater to casual people as well as hardcore fans, you broaden your market. You can take casual players and gradually turn them into hardcore fans. That makes more money. That's pretty much Business 101.
3.)

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I know there are differences between the GTR and V-spec, but I'm 100% sure there aren't 27 different types of Skyline (GTR, V-Spec, V-specII, Nur Edition, etc.)

I'm just looking at the list of Skylines on GT5 now...

3 x Skyline GTR R33
2 x Skyline GTR R34
2 x Skyline GTR R32
2 x Special Color Midnight purple Skylines (R33, R44) - Why not just include that in the color options for the normal GTR's?
3 x R33 V-spec's
2 x R32 GTS-T Type M

You can't tell me they weren't just doing that to say they had more cars in GT5?

Honestly, I don't think they run out of stuff and then go..."Well lets just add in more cars for the hell of it". I imagine PD and Kaz are more thoughtful than that. I would have to look at each one individual to give you more detail than to just say 3 x Skyline R33's.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Even if there were slight differences between the models, I'm sure they shouldn't be worth the extra time over improving other parts of the game that are lacking? (Standard cars are what I'm talking about, as an example)

I'm not a coder/game developer, so I can't speak on how long it takes to build a Premium car.

Originally Posted by LexusFman

I think I can put some insight into this debate. I've read the entire thread and I can honestly say Dragonitti, you are a fanboy

Passionate about what I like does not equate to Fanboy. When I think of fanboy, I think of someone who doesn't even give so much as a second look or considers the opposition. That is not the case, and evident by my first post to begin with.

Don't think I've once said I'm not going to play it. And I've never claimed GT was "flawless" or "perfect".

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

#3 - Graphics in Forza 4 are at least equal, if not better, than GT5, and you don't have to worry about a "standard" car model being on the track and ruining the whole thing.

To me, that's just BS. I don't need to play the game to know I'm not blind.

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

2.) If you cater to casual people as well as hardcore fans, you broaden your market. You can take casual players and gradually turn them into hardcore fans. That makes more money. That's pretty much Business 101.

To an extent. Where you will have a problem with that though, is online. Mixing hardcore players with the casual ones. Getting in rooms with a lot of people who would rather drive the opposite direction and do head on collisions because they want to see the cars smash, rather than doing some clean racing and taking home the win.

What's the consensus on that. What is online like in Forza when it comes to the community type. Like in GT5, admins title their rooms when you create them to give an understanding of how to conduct yourself when you get there. Example title "400-550pp Clean Race Street Cars Only".

[n2oinferno]

There's really plenty of options in Forza 4 online. There's the community hoppers that are just matchmaking, where game types are defined before you search. There are private rooms as well, which are public too so other people can join (removed in 3, outraged community demanded it back so it's back in 4), and then you have things like tag, virus, Top Gear Football/Soccer for people who just want to destroy each other. Rivals mode is good too. Race against ghosts on a community leaderboard. There's a bunch of normal challenges, and a set of challenges that rotate monthly as well.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

To me, that's just BS. I don't need to play the game to know I'm not blind.

Oh no, you aren't a fanboy at all...

The games are not that different. To take one side so stubbornly over the other is just, well, stubborn.

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gt5 does look better but it is not a huge difference... they still both look like video games. And no I'm not blind. If one was photorealistic and the other wasn't you would have a point, but the games are really pretty much the same thing. People will just buy whichever one they own the consoles for so threads like this are pointless.

[82mm 4g63]

In my perfect world, both Sony and Microsoft would quit wasting all of this money developing these gaming consoles that they end up selling for a loss and just sell disc drives that I can install in our PC's with our superior hardware. If I could pay $200 for a PS3 Bluray drive, I would actually own one and play some of their games. I understand why they don't, but I disagree with it. Would be pretty awesome if they offered both, for people with 10 year old PCs of course they should have a modern console with up to par hardware, but for the gamers with nice rigs...let us use them.

Originally Posted by LexusFman

#2- In order to actually make the game take skill, I had to take off so many assists like automatic braking. Why? Even need for speed dosen't brake the car for you. Racing sims aren't for casuals. Just No.

Yeah, it's a simulator, but it's a video game simulator. It isn't like NASCAR or F1 drivers are using it to practice real life driving strategies. It's a video game simulator that they want to sell to a broad spectrum of customers. In order to do that they need to offer different difficulty levels. Just like almost every video game sold. If they have to put in dummy modes to sell more copies to fund the R&D for their next release, go for it. Is it really that big of an inconvenience to disable the assists once?

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

If you care to disrespect people who are trying to carry on a decent discussion, by editing their message you quote, then you aren't worthy of getting a respectful reply.

If typing "blah blah" in attempt to save space as opposed to quoting you're entire reply is that upsetting to you, I'm truly sorry, but I really don't care who replies to me or who doesn't. :happy0180:

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Yeah, because Honda guys are always replacing their tooth-pick axles by putting light-weight ones in their cars to rev better...

(Still no facepalm smiley?)

Like I said. Past failures taint my impression of Forza's present.

As for the physics, it just doesn't 'feel' right...

(I owned Forza 2.)

Go and play F4 with an open mind It's much better than 2. (and just for Dragonitti - YES, I would consider F4 an evolutionary improvement over 2)

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Honestly, I don't think they run out of stuff and then go..."Well lets just add in more cars for the hell of it". I imagine PD and Kaz are more thoughtful than that. I would have to look at each one individual to give you more detail than to just say 3 x Skyline R33's.

I'm sure they don't explicitly do it like that, but more like "We can get more cars than this onto that Blu-Ray disc... How about we find small differences between some of the years of the same model, and then add them in as a seperate cars. As an added bonus we can then say we have more cars in the game!"

As another note, I checked up what Ichi said about there being about 30 MX-5's/Miata's... He was close - 27. Found that posted on an MX5 forum, and the only difference between some of them was that some were UKDM, others were JDM. The only difference between these would have been the steering wheel... Still believe PD wouldn't have just done that to have the "most" cars?

Source: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?p=4879445

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Don't think I've once said I'm not going to play it. And I've never claimed GT was "flawless" or "perfect".

But you've yet to claim in any way that it isn't perfect...

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

In my perfect world, both Sony and Microsoft would quit wasting all of this money developing these gaming consoles that they end up selling for a loss and just sell disc drives that I can install in our PC's with our superior hardware. If I could pay $200 for a PS3 Bluray drive, I would actually own one and play some of their games. I understand why they don't, but I disagree with it. Would be pretty awesome if they offered both, for people with 10 year old PCs of course they should have a modern console with up to par hardware, but for the gamers with nice rigs...let us use them.

Blu-ray drives aren't even that expensive (compared to a console)? It's just that the software MS and Sony use haven't been designed to work on PC's, and I guess making everyone have the same hardware keeps everyone on the same field. It would also keep the cost of developing games down (not having to test them on multiple different systems to check compatibility).

Although, I wish the same thing as you. If some of these games were able to be played on PC, I wouldn't even have an Xbox.

[blur]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

I understand why they don't, but I disagree with it.

Exclusives. Another bi-product of console fanboys.

Although, there is hope. Microsoft reports that Windows 8 will be able to play next gen xbox games

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by blur

Exclusives. Another bi-product of console fanboys.

Although, there is hope. Microsoft reports that Windows 8 will be able to play next gen xbox games

Yeah I keep hearing this too. Really, it should be doable. I know that computers have high overhead because they're running the OS and all of the processes in the background as well, but if you could boot to a gaming OS that only runs what's absolutely needed to get the stuff to function, I think it could work. Consoles are ancient technology compared to what we have now, but the downfall of emulation is you need so much more power than what the console had for it to run well. I wasn't able to run Dolphin until just recently when I rebuilt my computer. Now it runs like a champ and proves why Nintendo needs a HD system. Wii games look great at 1080p with lots of antialiasing.
I guess it's just better to give the devs a box and say "make it work here." The problem is though that PC gamers get shafted because consoles are the priority, and then most of the time the PC gets a shitty port.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by blur

Although, there is hope. Microsoft reports that Windows 8 will be able to play next gen xbox games

I agree with n2oinferno, this should be doable, AS LONG AS the next xbox's hardware architecture isn't too different from the regular architecture used in PC's.

And if it ends up that we can play the next gen Xbox games on PC... Well then I won't need to buy a new Xbox!

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Oh no, you aren't a fanboy at all...

The games are not that different. To take one side so stubbornly over the other is just, well, stubborn.

gt5 does look better but it is not a huge difference... they still both look like video games. And no I'm not blind. If one was photorealistic and the other wasn't you would have a point, but the games are really pretty much the same thing. People will just buy whichever one they own the consoles for so threads like this are pointless.

Forza's color lighting makes it look very cartoonish to me. Very vibrant in color, much like a graphic comic. Some people like it that way, I for one feel like I'm looking at a comic. GT5's color/lighting is lesser much like the real world is. Lighting/colors are not vibrant and look more washed in real life, and that's better to me than what Forza displays.

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

If typing "blah blah" in attempt to save space as opposed to quoting you're entire reply is that upsetting to you, I'm truly sorry, but I really don't care who replies to me or who doesn't. :happy0180:

Upsetting? Baahaaa....umm ok. No one else has a problem quoting text. Like I said, if you want a reply, then don't edit it with blah blah. At least from me anyway.

Originally Posted by Snaps

I'm sure they don't explicitly do it like that, but more like "We can get more cars than this onto that Blu-Ray disc... How about we find small differences between some of the years of the same model, and then add them in as a seperate cars. As an added bonus we can then say we have more cars in the game!"

GT has always had multiple versions of cars, I don't think the large capacity of being Blu-Ray has anything to do with that.

Originally Posted by Snaps

But you've yet to claim in any way that it isn't perfect...

I just did . With that said, any imperfection hasn't effected my game play. When the updates contained code to correct a glitch, it was one that I never even knew existed. They were more exploit fixes than they were glitches. Shift 2 glitches all the damn time for me. It freezes, cars go chrome green and sound disappears from it. It's actually my second Shift 2. I took the first one back because it froze every 5 minutes of game play. Or you can guarantee it to freeze up within 45mins of game play.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

GT has always had multiple versions of cars, I don't think the large capacity of being Blu-Ray has anything to do with that..

I know they've always had multiple version of cars, but as far as I can remember from GT4, there has never been anywhere near 5 repeats of what is essentially the same car, and they've never had up to 30 of the same model of car across only 3 or 4 revisions of that model - that's a huge 8-10 different cars for a single revision. Not only are there not that many models sold with differences major enough to call it a "new car", they also certainly don't have enough of a difference between them to warrant 3 different changes within a specific model ('95, '96, '97 R33 GTR for example).

I really can't see how you don't think they are just adding more cars to say they have more, and because they've clearly got the space for it.

I remember you posting in this thread about GT5 having "quality over quantity". That's sure not looking true to me...

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Blu-ray drives aren't even that expensive (compared to a console)? It's just that the software MS and Sony use haven't been designed to work on PC's, and I guess making everyone have the same hardware keeps everyone on the same field. It would also keep the cost of developing games down (not having to test them on multiple different systems to check compatibility).

Although, I wish the same thing as you. If some of these games were able to be played on PC, I wouldn't even have an Xbox.

Oh I know they're not that expensive, I was adding in some coin for the software bundle that would have to coincide with the drives. Like possibly a PS/XBOX OS that you booted into to play games instead of logging into Windows then loading a game.

As far as keeping everyone on the same field with their hardware, PC gamers don't complain about "JoeBlow having a faster machine and it's not fair!" I don't see it as a real problem, at least not one large enough to discount the whole idea for. They should just set bare minimums, if your machine doesn't have X hardware, it won't even load. In all honestly, if the PS3/XB were selling for 300$ and the solo drives that I could install into my PC were selling for $300, I would still buy the drive. To have one less box/HDMI cable/floor heater in my room it would be a fair trade off.

Originally Posted by blur

Exclusives. Another bi-product of console fanboys.

Although, there is hope. Microsoft reports that Windows 8 will be able to play next gen xbox games

I don't think it would affect the exclusive titles. People today buy PS3 for Uncharted/GT and XB for Halo/Forza, they would still have to buy PSdrive for Uncharted/GT and XBdrive for Halo/Forza. I have 4 empty drive bays waiting.

I just want an all-in-one gaming box.

[blur]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

I don't think it would affect the exclusive titles. People today buy PS3 for Uncharted/GT and XB for Halo/Forza, they would still have to buy PSdrive for Uncharted/GT and XBdrive for Halo/Forza. I have 4 empty drive bays waiting.

I have 10 drive bays

The idea of a gaming OS is awesome. The drives are all the same though, your good ole dvd drive can read xbox dvds just fine. Its the operating system and the architecture of the console that makes all the difference.

I can imagine the PC platform blowing up if next gen xbox games became playable. There's definitely a huge market that MS can tap in to.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I know they've always had multiple version of cars, but as far as I can remember from GT4, there has never been anywhere near 5 repeats of what is essentially the same car, and they've never had up to 30 of the same model of car across only 3 or 4 revisions of that model - that's a huge 8-10 different cars for a single revision. Not only are there not that many models sold with differences major enough to call it a "new car", they also certainly don't have enough of a difference between them to warrant 3 different changes within a specific model ('95, '96, '97 R33 GTR for example).

I really can't see how you don't think they are just adding more cars to say they have more, and because they've clearly got the space for it.

I remember you posting in this thread about GT5 having "quality over quantity". That's sure not looking true to me...

Can't complain about options...In this case, it has quality and quantity.