Tein Basis Z vs. Springs?

[max20s14]

https://goo.gl/photos/hGQo71KpZqNHVQsu8


Can anyone comment on the Tein basis Z?


I am looking for comfort and looks mostly since im not a track junkie, and I am on the fence between ordering these or eibach sportlines along with SPC lca's and camber bolts.
Really like the looks of the car with ~1.5 in drop.




My past experience with Tein was not so good. I had an 1995 s14 with old Tein basics which were very bouncy.


My car after that was an 1991 s13 coupe with Powered by Max competition coilovers.. waay too stiff.


Edit for more info: The Tein street basis Z are 5k front and 6k rear.
not sure about the sportlines. The basis Z are only $250 more than a set of new sportlines, but my concern is which will perform better overall..


Another area of concern is the Basis coilovers are adjusted by the spring perch instead of the shock body, will this cause stroke problems for the damper if lowered past a certain point?


I am especially curious about ride comfort.


Thanks guys.

[FR-Sky]

Different car has different setting, Tein do pretty well on our car.
I have sat on one of my friend's car, the ride is good, and it is adjustable.
If you are not satisfy, save money for KW, Ohlin, etc.

[max20s14]

Do you think the Teins are a better ride than stock shocks with sportlines? Since the shocks are matched to the springs.


It sounds like your friend has a higher end model from Tein since they are adjustable where as the street basis coilovers are not.

[churchx]

You really shouldn't consider 1.5 in drop.

Given that you mention lower budget offerings, i doubt you have budgeted in purchase of other suspension parts needed, eg. for roll center adjustment, diff riser and so on, that should be used on these cars with more lowering then 1".

[max20s14]

Originally Posted by churchx

You really shouldn't consider 1.5 in drop.

Given that you mention lower budget offerings, i doubt you have budgeted in purchase of other suspension parts needed, eg. for roll center adjustment, diff riser and so on, that should be used on these cars with more lowering then 1".

I understand I am familiar with what your talking about coming from the S-chasis world. Im not too concerned about it just yet. I just put wheels on the car and the gap bothers me.


I am not concerned with being competitive at a track which is why I am looking at cheaper options, the goal is a better looking / more fun street car than stock while retaining as much comfort as possible.


In the S-chasis world sub frame risers where popular to correct suspension geometry...but at ~1.5 inches I wasn't sure if something like that is beneficial.

[strat61caster]

Sounds like you'll be very happy with high quality springs, don't obsess too much about getting '1.5"', it really isn't necessary and comes with more negatives than positives.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53303

[churchx]

max20s14: while some parts advised are more to keep handling good enough with that big of suspension geometry change, diff riser was mentioned as to lessen strain at diff/axle joints for those to not fail prematurely due bigger angle from lowering. And again if you want low budget, is it worth to make car parts fail sooner? If gap really really THAT much bothers you .. IIRC there were some wheel arch extenders (by TRD?) that lowered arches themselves.
This car is wonderful to drive even stock. Don't hurry to make it worse or break sooner for minor subjective visual issues, it deserves better then that.

[max20s14]

Originally Posted by churchx

max20s14: while some parts advised are more to keep handling good enough with that big of suspension geometry change, diff riser was mentioned as to lessen strain at diff/axle joints for those to not fail prematurely due bigger angle from lowering. And again if you want low budget, is it worth to make car parts fail sooner? If gap really really THAT much bothers you .. IIRC there were some wheel arch extenders (by TRD?) that lowered arches themselves.
This car is wonderful to drive even stock. Don't hurry to make it worse or break sooner for minor subjective visual issues, it deserves better then that.

So is the consensus that stock shocks + ~1.0 in drop springs are better than the lower end coilovers? With the Teins I would have the option of raising it back up and don't have to drop it to the point of breaking the car. My main curiosity is if the Tein basis are better than just springs on a stock shock..


I agree, the car is wonderful to drive stock. I am not trying to make the car worse, which is part reason for coming here and asking for your opinions. I don't mind spending more on suspension, but am unsure if something more expensive will benefit me driving on the street + the occasional drift event. In fact I would even prefer to avoid some of the more expensive coilovers due to them having pillow ball mounts, which tend to wear and start clunking after a while. I do not mind correcting suspension geometry either, but I am ignorant to what that involves with this car, or if I would even be able to tell an honest difference.

[chaoscentral]

FWIW

I went the second route you said, sportlines on stock shocks with camber bolts and SPC LCA's in the back. The ride is much more stiff, avoid potholes like the plague(same hazards as any lowered car). Setup has been on the car since about 3500 miles and I'm at almost 27k now and no real issues. My only suggestion if going that route is a set of adjustable front end links for the sway bar, I bent the factory ones in a short period of time.

But other than that I don't regret the purchase as it was mainly to close the wheel gap and hasn't made my car undriveable or broken any axles etc, and I drive it like I stole it more often than not.

That said I am saving up for a decent coilover setup once I start to get more serious with the mods.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Sportlines IMO lower a little too much for a spring. If you really want that 1.4 inch drop then I would recommend coilovers.

- Andrew

[churchx]

"So is the consensus that stock shocks + ~1.0 in drop springs are better than the lower end coilovers?"
In general - yes. Most very cheap coilovers more often then not are crap of inconsistent quality/matching/bling & budget instead of performance as goal. And very possible being worse then stock.
But then again from reviews it seems that Tein Flex Z / A are kind of exception to rule, being good enough & improvement over stock, despite being priced as low as other budget offerings.
Many bought & installed thoughtlessly "upgrades" with intention to make it better "how they subjectively understand/feel", in reality doing opposite. Eg. overlowering as it worked well for high initial clearance/travel old cars when ours are rather low even stock and with already limited shock travel, or installing staggered wheels (but ferrari does that, must be good!), or too sticky & wide tires and then wondering why ride got boring (ours are relatively low powered after all) loosing playfulness/fun.
As initial food of thoughts i advise reading two threads: this about common mistakes for suspension mods, and this guide if in future you'll start thinking about engine performance mods. May save from doing some mistakes and may save some money from buying expensive parts with little return.
+1 to stay clear of pillow ball mounts if you mostly dailydrive. I've heard from others from your side of pond, that you also have your share of bad roads. I had bought top of the line camberplates with pillowball .. after few months on local roads i reverted to stock. Were fine on good roads, on track, possibly fine with better coilovers, but certainly not on bad local roads with harsh and loud hits when suspension bottomed making one feel soon breaking something, where prior that i just drove w/o minding anything.
My advise would be:
1) visit track with everything stock few times. These cars are surprisingly capable even stock. Will give you lot of information what/how/if at all/to what extent you want to change
2) very basic mod of camber bolts for front and cheapest rear LCA-s to get more negative camber & camber adjustment in general (eg. for grip bias change)
3) maybe lowering springs with stock shocks or flex Zs.
4) middle budget range coilovers like KWs/RCE Tarmac/Billsteins/Ohlins. Possibly also if you started to use tires with more grip.

At most options i wouldn't think of going lower then 1", as needed budget to keep handling good will spike, it won't make car faster on track, will reduce daily driving practicality. It's just looks thing which at that is very subjective thing.

[max20s14]

Originally Posted by churchx

"So is the consensus that stock shocks + ~1.0 in drop springs are better than the lower end coilovers?"
In general - yes. Most very cheap coilovers more often then not are crap of inconsistent quality/matching/bling & budget instead of performance as goal. And very possible being worse then stock.
But then again from reviews it seems that Tein Flex Z / A are kind of exception to rule, being good enough & improvement over stock, despite being priced as low as other budget offerings.
Many bought & installed thoughtlessly "upgrades" with intention to make it better "how they subjectively understand/feel", in reality doing opposite. Eg. overlowering as it worked well for high initial clearance/travel old cars when ours are rather low even stock and with already limited shock travel, or installing staggered wheels (but ferrari does that, must be good!), or too sticky & wide tires and then wondering why ride got boring (ours are relatively low powered after all) loosing playfulness/fun.
As initial food of thoughts i advise reading two threads: this about common mistakes for suspension mods, and this guide if in future you'll start thinking about engine performance mods. May save from doing some mistakes and may save some money from buying expensive parts with little return.
+1 to stay clear of pillow ball mounts if you mostly dailydrive. I've heard from others from your side of pond, that you also have your share of bad roads. I had bought top of the line camberplates with pillowball .. after few months on local roads i reverted to stock. Were fine on good roads, on track, possibly fine with better coilovers, but certainly not on bad local roads with harsh and loud hits when suspension bottomed making one feel soon breaking something, where prior that i just drove w/o minding anything.
My advise would be:
1) visit track with everything stock few times. These cars are surprisingly capable even stock. Will give you lot of information what/how/if at all/to what extent you want to change
2) very basic mod of camber bolts for front and cheapest rear LCA-s to get more negative camber & camber adjustment in general (eg. for grip bias change)
3) maybe lowering springs with stock shocks or flex Zs.
4) middle budget range coilovers like KWs/RCE Tarmac/Billsteins/Ohlins. Possibly also if you started to use tires with more grip.

At most options i wouldn't think of going lower then 1", as needed budget to keep handling good will spike, it won't make car faster on track, will reduce daily driving practicality. It's just looks thing which at that is very subjective thing.

I first looked at the Flex coilovers but the pillow ball mount turned me off from them, then saw the street basis, which have the same spring rates as the Flex, but I could be wrong. Perhaps the shocks are similar? I saw they make a street basis advanced with adjustable shocks too..


ST coilovers(KW v1?) looked good also, but couldn't tell if they have pillow ball upper mounts from the picture and the spring rates seem to be fair for a street car.


No matter what I am defiantly picking up the SPC lca's and some camber bolts

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by max20s14

ST coilovers(KW v1?) looked good also, but couldn't tell if they have pillow ball upper mounts from the picture and the spring rates seem to be fair for a street car.

They re-use the OE top hats.