Pin Cones

[smg1138]

This one is for all the Autocrossers out there.

I attended a 2 day SCCA event last weekend that had a plethora of 180 degree pin cones. I've always kind of struggled with them and they usually hurt my times.

If I stay in 2nd going around them I usually chug pretty hard. If I downshift to 1st, I tend come around them a lot better due to the extra torque.

I always cringe a little whenever I have to downshift to 1st though for fear of damaging the transmission. There are times I envy guys with paddle shifters.

What have you guys found to be the best way to handle those pin turns?

[VIP BRZ]

[FX86]

All right look man there lots of ways you can do this all right. Handbraking is the easiest so the first thing I want you to do, I want you to rip that E-Brake all right. After you rip that E-Brake then I want you to power over.

[Icecreamtruk]

Dorifto? The fastest way around a 180 turn is drifting, no doubt about that. So e-brake as suggested (since we lack on power) is probably best. Innertia drift is too fast but braking drift might be possible as well (no e-brake needed there).

[smg1138]

[renfield90]

Any idea if the clock said one way was faster than the other?

I typically refuse to downshift to first and just live with it. If there is a large power section after it, set your entry as wide as you can and brake early so you can be on the gas as early as possible.

In general though digging out of pin turns is not this car's strong suit; it's going to feel slow and painful because it is. Don't try to pickup time on features like this, just get through it and look for other features where you can be more aggressive (like slaloms and offsets/transitions).

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Any idea if the clock said one way was faster than the other?

Yeah, it looked like downshifting to 1st was definitely faster for the other twins drivers. Nobody felt super comfortable doing that, but that's what the numbers showed. Seems like we always fall into a power band doughnut hole on stuff like that. All the guys with torque could just stay in 2nd the whole time. I think next season I'll just avoid events with pin cones. lol

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Yeah, it looked like downshifting to 1st was definitely faster for the other twins drivers. Nobody felt super comfortable doing that, but that's what the numbers showed. Seems like we always fall into a power band doughnut hole on stuff like that. All the guys with torque could just stay in 2nd the whole time. I think next season I'll just avoid events with pin cones. lol

STX or CS?

This is part of why I went to STX. It's still not a dig-out-of-corners car but it does it way better than it did in CS trim.

[14stu]

For pivot cones (that's a better name for them), you will probably be faster down shifting into 1st. You want to brake in a straight line into the pivot and late apex by the cone making a tight "U" with the pivot cone in one of the corners of the "U", not at the vertex. This technique can sometimes allow you to stay in 2nd since it carries more momentum. Cars don't like traveling in a "V"(same thing happens when you "pinch" a corner).

[FirstWinter]

For STX it's a lot better since you can modify the car and get better torque in the lower revs but otherwise you're going to have to take it wide and carry as much speed as possible. As mentioned, you can try to shorten your time in the other parts of the course.

[strat61caster]

How slow are you going? Even down to 25mph it really doesn't feel like it's worth it, and not even the Lotus club designs elements that slow around here.

Regardless, as long as you don't hear any nasty noises or aren't bending the stick/linkage trying to get it into gear you probably aren't doing anything too nasty to the transmission. And even if you are, the absolute worst case scenario is you blow it up: a quick ebay search shows trannies for $600-$800 and I can't imagine it would take more than a day to do a straight swap.

Props to you for making the 1st gear downshift though, I don't think I could, maybe I should try it at a practice event just in case...

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

How slow are you going? Even down to 25mph it really doesn't feel like it's worth it, and not even the Lotus club designs elements that slow around here.

Regardless, as long as you don't hear any nasty noises or aren't bending the stick/linkage trying to get it into gear you probably aren't doing anything too nasty to the transmission. And even if you are, the absolute worst case scenario is you blow it up: a quick ebay search shows trannies for $600-$800 and I can't imagine it would take more than a day to do a straight swap.

Props to you for making the 1st gear downshift though, I don't think I could, maybe I should try it at a practice event just in case...

You are more likely to grenade the motor by money shifting than you are the transmission. The tranny won't care if you spin it too fast, the motor will (don't forget it's an interference design!).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by renfield90

You are more likely to grenade the motor by money shifting than you are the transmission. The tranny won't care if you spin it too fast, the motor will (don't forget it's an interference design!).

Why are we talking about money shifting?

Edit: idk just seems like showing up in a turbo reliability thread and talking about not changing your oil frequently enough... You'd hope some things were obvious.

Forcing the tranny to go into 1st when it doesn't want to absolutely adds wear and tear to it. Me saying 'blow it up' was probably a poor choice of words.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Why are we talking about money shifting?

Edit: idk just seems like showing up in a turbo reliability thread and talking about not changing your oil frequently enough... You'd hope some things were obvious.

Forcing the tranny to go into 1st when it doesn't want to absolutely adds wear and tear to it. Me saying 'blow it up' was probably a poor choice of words.

Practice double clutching into first. Piece of cake. No drama.