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Old 01-13-2021, 10:22 PM   #616
Irace86.2.0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funwheeldrive View Post
What I'm suggesting is the "risk" is not nearly as high as some people would like the population to believe. The amount of fear mongering in relation to this virus is completely off the charts when you review all the data available. I guess for some people it's easy to pat themselves on the back and pretend that all of these mandates and restrictions are absolutely necessary, but in reality that's not the case.

This is apparent when people like Gavin Newsom decide to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a dinner indoors with people not wearing masks and not a part of his family while working class citizens are struggling just to survive.

To be honest I'm astounded that people can be so in favor of these restrictions when places like California are currently having their highest spikes in both cases and deaths despite having some of the strictest mandates in the country.

But hey, if you agree with limiting free speech, making vaccines mandatory for everyone, and giving the government the ultimate say in what's allowed and not allowed on even the smallest level then you are free to that opinion just like I'm free to my own (for now)
I agree to an extent that some people have misguided fears. Some people fear death when the likelihood is very small, but some people don't fear any long term consequences when there is plenty of evidence to suggest there is reason to be concerned. If getting COVID was clearly shown to be equivalent to being obese for 20 years on your heart, or equivalent to smoking for 30 years on your lungs, then some wouldn't care and others would be very concerned. If it was shown that COVID takes 5-10 years off your life through heart problems, but you will survive the event with mild simples then for many people that would be concerning. We don't have long term data on the effects of COVID in survivors, but the preliminary data is compelling enough to be concerned for many people who care about their long term health and quality of life.

I don't know how California's restrictions compare to other places, but it is miles removed from the lockdowns of early last year. Businesses are open. People are out. People wear masks, but no one is acting like we are in the middle of a pandemic outbreak. When I go on hikes, more people are wearing masks when passing people on the trails. People are still socializing. People are still gathering with family. Most businesses are not closed. It is hard driving down the street to tell what businesses are closed.

Our outbreaks, as bad as they are, actually aren't the worst in the nation when adjusted for capita, yet they should be the worst, especially considering the population density and size of areas like LA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by funwheeldrive View Post
Here is a crazy idea, how about instead of expecting an entire population of people to adhere to strict guidelines for over a year over a virus with a +99.5% survival rate we instead channel our efforts to those who are at risk instead?

If you're in the at risk population then socially distance and wear a N95 mask and gloves until you're able to get the vaccine.

You bring up asymptomatic carriers but would you mind providing the data on the likelihood of an asymptomatic person transmitting the virus to others?

Aside from being suspended what other penalties should come with not getting the vaccine? Banned from flying, not able to shop in stores, unable to go to public events? All for a virus that the majority of people shrug off in a day or two?

You say that lawmakers will be forced to act, yet California is going through their worst spike to date and people are still allowed to film movies Are you allowed to get a haircut still or did that get banned again?

Also, where are the military ships like the USNS Comfort right now? Where are the emergency hospitals being built?

Again, I'm not saying covid isn't real, I'm not saying that people don't die from covid, what I'm saying is that the measures being taken in the name of public safety are unfounded, and not worth the cost that comes with them.
Why are strict guidelines so hard? Many other countries did just that to a greater extent with greater compliance, and they don't have the cases or deaths. Many of these countries have returned to work, and their GDP is up. Meanwhile, here we are. You sound like you are in favor of strict guidelines, but just for older adults? Who takes care of older adults? Who lives with older adults? Even if we were able to prevent a single person over 65 from dying or going to the hospital, our healthcare system would be overwhelmed with hospital admissions and ER visits from the general population. This leads to indirect deaths. We have a little less than a million hospital beds in the US, and at any one time, most of them are full. What would happen if the 280+ million people under 65 all were exposed to COVID over a short period?

The likelihood of an asymptomatic person transmitting a virus to someone else ranges from 0-100%. It depends on the situation, so if we are talking about a couple who kisses and exchanges other fluids regularly then it is 100%. If we are talking about people wearing surgical masks who socially distance and briefly meet and don't talk then the odds are very close to 0%. There is everything in between from the person who's mask falls below their nose to the people talking face to face that don't wear a mask to the people that pick their nose, sneeze in their hand then shake the hand of others and everything in between. I think you should know that quantifying such a thing under such a wide range of possible scenarios is virtually impossible, so I'm curious why you would even ask such a ridiculous question.

We could do what our founding fathers did when there was a smallpox outbreak and send in the troops to force people to get a vaccine. I don't think that is necessary. Like I said, businesses can do what they want. It is their business, so if they want to mandate a negative COVID test or mandate vaccines then they can. They don't mandate vaccines to fly right now, so I doubt that will change, but that is because we have herd immunity on smallpox and measles and other diseases, so I doubt they will require a vaccine when we reach endemic levels or herd immunity, just like they don't require the flu vaccine to fly. I think you are reaching for extreme examples because you want it to be an all or none scenario, but there is a big difference between requiring vaccines for healthcare workers and requiring vaccines to go to Target. Currently, healthcare workers are required to be vaccinated for MMR, so I don't completely understand the objection.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...fighting-story

Our failure is systemic from our government and our institutions to the individuals in our society. We could have acted swiftly and decisively with countermeasures, and we could have stopped this virus and been back to a more normal and open society. Instead, we have this.

You create this false dichotomy where we have to trade lives for our economy. First off, lives are precious, and they are priceless, and they are more important than someone's ability to go to a supermarket without having to wear a mask or someone getting to go to a movie theatre or to their favorite restaurant or bar. Moreover, the false dichotomy doesn't have to be the case. Other countries have provided monthly aid to their citizens. Other countries have extended unemployment. Other countries have restricted evictions or foreclosures and provided mortgage relief. Other countries have supported small businesses, so they don't go bankrupt. We could do the same to the same extent, but we haven't done nearly as much. We have a problem issuing one time checks.
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