[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tomm

Why not?

Because the two issues aren’t dependent. It is like saying shouldn’t we have an effective immigration policy before we decriminalize marijuana?

Originally Posted by Tomm

I know a lot of farmers but I generally don’t ask them ab the workers’ citizenship status.

Don’t you think it’s a problem that there are those with 3-4 SSNs? Shouldn’t we do something ab it?

I’m not arguing for booting people out who are just trying to make a living. Im arguing that if people are wanting to roll out a system that will give citizens free healthcare, don’t you think we should have an effective immigration policies first. I do.

The implications from this statement...

Can we try fixing our borders and getting rid of the millions of illegal aliens before we attempt M4A?

...is that we will pay for immigrants to use our healthcare. They already do that. Nothing is preventing anyone from using our most expensive services now: emergency services. I can’t go to Germany and schedule a free knee replacement surgery just because they have M4A.

...is that we will be burdened with more expenses. This has already been factored into the cost of M4A, which has been shown by studies and bipartisan research groups to be cheaper than our current system, saving us trillions.

Even the Mercatus Center, a right-wing think tank, recently found about $2 trillion in net savings over 10 years from a single-payer Medicare for All system.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...es-money%3famp

The whole line of reasoning is ignorant or it borders on racism and xenophobia. This country is built on immigrants. These people who are coming from all over the world are often harder working and are less likely to be involved in criminal activity than the average citizen. They contribute to the economy more than they take from social services. They pay taxes more often than they don’t, adding money to social security and other programs they will never get to use. If there were less obstacles then I’m sure even more would pay taxes. This might be why @bcj said to fix racists first.

IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security. In addition, they spend billions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million unauthorized immigrants in Texas added almost $18 billion to the gross state product, and contributed $1.58 billion in state revenue, while costing the state about $1.16 billion in services used.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econ...dgetary_impact

Another example from the article:

Moreover, studies have also shown that not providing illegal immigrants with a decent healthcare might actually cost the country in the long-run rather than save expenses. In 2000, researchers compared the perinatal outcomes and costs of illegal women with and without prenatal care and inferred the impact of denial of prenatal benefits to illegal immigrants in California. Nearly 10% of illegal women had no prenatal care. These women were nearly 4 times as likely to be delivered of low birth weight infants and more than 7 times as likely to be delivered of premature infants as were illegal women who had prenatal care. For every dollar cut from prenatal care, an increase of $3.33 in the cost of postnatal care and $4.63 in incremental long-term cost were expected. Elimination of publicly funded prenatal care for illegal women could save the state $58 million in direct prenatal care costs but could cost taxpayers as much as $194 million more in postnatal care, resulting in a net cost of $136 million initially and $211 million in long-term costs. Although their parents are illegal immigrants, these children are actually U.S citizens.

The reality is that the majority of illegal immigrants come here legally and simply overstay their visas. They come on work visas, student visas and family/tourist visas. The border isn’t even our biggest source of illegal immigration, yet it is what people chiefly focus on.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/68366...e-data-tell-us