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Old 09-06-2020, 07:24 PM   #339
ZDan
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Originally Posted by Red-86 View Post
911 Carrera? Supra? Sportified luxury cars or overweight 2-door sedans? Seriously?
They're luxury cars, for sure. Much bigger and heavier than if they were purist sports cars.

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They are none of those things. They are highly competent sportscars.
The term "sports car" means different things to different people. For me, a Miata is 10x more of a "sports car" than any road car Porsche has built in a long time...


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If you want to play with 400HP performance cars, you have to face the reality that they will weigh more than 180-200HP NA entry level cars like the MX-5 or 86. Unless you pony up for something expensive and exotic like a Lotus.
I never said I wanted or needed 400hp. For sure 300-330ish hp on a shortened FT86 platform would work, and it wouldn't weigh as much or cost as much as an Evora.

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And yet, you can’t conceive of why it’s untapped... if it was easy, why hasn’t it been done?
No *perceived* market.

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If Toyota could have made the 86 for the same price, same weight, but given it a 300HP V6... why didn’t they? The answer comes back to; power, lightweight, affordable. Pick two.
How much do you reckon the 301hp V6 in a Camry costs? How much weight would it add to an FT86, and how much weight would be removed by shortening the platform to a dedicated 2-seater on a 92" wheelbase?

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Increased power requires higher quality suspension in order for handling (and safety) not to suffer.
*No it does not*. Might retune front/rear roll stiffness distribution a bit, it's not rocket science and it doesn't have to add $$$.

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Don’t forget safety, it drives much of OEM planning and decision making.
Same safety standards to meet for 205hp as 300+hp.


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Great, but you are not the OEM planning on running 300-400HP through the car across thousands of cars and millions of kms. Rigidity becomes more important as power increases, because it’s never fun to have a chassis flexing and twisting on you under load.
Road loads are WAY higher and more significant than loads from the powertrain. You don't need a more rigid chassis than the car already has anyway, BUT shortening the wheelbase by 10" by itself will increase torsional rigidity!

[re wider wheels and sticky tires]
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Yep, and those add weight, unless you spring for ultra lightweight forged or exotic material jobs, which of course increase price.
I'm fine with 17x8 wheels and 225 tires from the factory.


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Automotive companies are not, contrary to forum opinions, idiots who can’t understand market demands.
Frequently, they are...

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If there was really this gaping hole in the market for a US$30k, 300HP, 2,800lb sportscar that could be easily filled and was profitable, you can bet it would be filled by now. Heck, Toyota came close with their 86, but they could only achieve the price point with an anaemic 200HP boxer 4 from Subaru. They can’t even offer you a 300HP Toyota sportscar (Supra 2.0) for less than US$40k!
They made the mistake (for me anyway) of teaming up with BMW, guaranteeing the Supra would be both heavy and pricey. Doh...

I've said it before, but just plopping a Toyota/Lexus V6 in the front of a shortened/lightened FT86 would have been fricking ideal for me.


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Why don’t you start up your own company and build it then? Because clearly none of the established OEMs believe it can be done, or want to do it. What do you know that they don’t?
Yeah, that sounds practical... I do have industry experience in designing analyzing and testing of vehicles, so maybe I should find some investors...
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