Originally Posted by brewksy
Gotta get some common sense in here...
Subjective opinion, without even having driven the car. We'll come back to this, because you state later that people that have driven the car and have good things to say are part of some secret Toyota conspiracy, but someone that hasn't driven the car (yourself) has the real truth about what the car is and isn't. What's more likely? That there's an international conspiracy of magazine road test editors and collusion with the auto industry, or you're just out to lunch?
Nice market research. You checked an online car forum to find out what the demand for the car will be and how many will be sold? Sorry, but that's not research and it's also not indicative at all of the actual demand for this car. Your continued lambasting of Toyota is more biased than any article anyone could have written praising Toyota.
Every release and interview with engineers or development primaries for the vehicle have stated the same thing: a return to the roots of driving, what the customer wanted. Again, your argument is completely wrong and devoid of any actual research. If/then conjecture doesn't prove anything either.
Again, another subjective opinion about how successful this car will be so we'll ignore this one completely.
Honda just did the same thing with the Civic. And of course "you already know this" - your entire argument to this point has just been some half-brained ideas you cooked up and are now serving as some truth. Let's ignore this paragraph as well.
More lame arguments and hyperbole. The '08 WRX is still a capable car and the mid-cycle refresh wasn't as dramatic as you would claim here. In fact, many people still actually enjoy their '08 WRXs.
N/A matches the character of the car because N/A is known to have more direct feedback when it comes to throttle control. Don't you know that? And this character doesn't match the current market trend? Which trend is that? The one that says all 4-cylinder engines have to be turbo'd to be fun? I think the S2K, Miata, and Lotus Elise/Exige would disagree (oddly enough, those three cars are also considered to be some of the most well-connected cars on the road today).
So when you get called out on your argument, instead of looking at your own biased views your explanation is that EVO magazine is just "going with the flow" and a whole bunch of magazines will change their mind later after it comes out. Here comes that international auto mag conspiracy talk again...
Subaru is saying what, exactly? They haven't said anything officially that agrees with what you're saying. I'd love to know what sources you have for this that doesn't include the international auto magazine/Toyota conspirators. "Chose" friendly ones? Like every big mag/auto site in the world?
More blind speculation. Let's ignore this paragraph as well.
No. If Toyota was even *allowed* to give advice on the WRX styling it would be considered collusion in the market because Toyota is not a majority shareholder of Subaru (Subaru is not a sub-brand of Toyota). Your arguments here are basically just an active imagination gone wild. FHI controls Subaru outright - Toyota has no ability to modify Subaru's lineup in any way. I could own 30% of a company, but if I'm not the CEO in charge I don't have any input into the direction of the organization and less than zero input on the actual design elements in the engineering department. This is not my opinion, this is how business works.
Your friends are not the majority either. I see you own a GTR a Vette, and various other higher-powered cars. I imagine the people you hang around with also have similar cars? This car was never targeted at you - even the interview with some of the head developers stated that turbos, high grip, and high power were definitely NOT the goals of this car, something the GTR, the Vette, the Supra, and the GTO have in spades (in varying capacities). Is it surprising that you don't find 200hp to be adequate in this case?
Second, please don't make speculation around the production cost of the car, or whether a minority of people want the N/A version, or the market for this car. Unless you're an engineer at Toyota and know the R&D costs or the lead marketing exec that is responsible for hitting the "right" target market for this car, there's no way for you to predict that. With the positive attention it's received already, it's hard to swallow that somehow we're in the "minority" for wanting this car.
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