Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport-Tech
Fact is though that most of the Brit reviewers have raved about the Megane's handling, despite it being burdened with all the disadvantages you list and more - wrong wheel drive, height, weight. I'm agnostic on the commonly held supposition that "it [insert RWD sports car here] has to a priori be better because it's...", which is why I am tempted to wait until I can test both the Toyobaru and the GTI MK7 on the same day before dropping my cash down.
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Yeah I agree certain FWD hatches can probably be setup to be fun despite their disadvantages, but I haven't driven any production models here in the US sold that way. I used to have a DC5 Integra/RSX that I modified with coilovers and thick rear sway bar, and while that could rotate if you chucked it into a corner, it wasn't as fun or controllable or composed in a slide as driving my FR-S. Maybe a drive in a Focus ST or mk7 GTI would change my mind, but I'm doubtful. Part of the problem I suspect is that it's far more intuitive for me to use the throttle to induce oversteer, not understeer as you would in a FWD hot hatch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport-Tech
I haven't waded into the long history of Evo's relationship to the car so I can't speak to that. But going from this review I would not say they are issuing an unqualified negative on the car. Sure these other reviewers can get the BRZ to slide at 10/10ths on a track or closed road. Evo's point was that on the street the car's relative lack of torque doesn't allow one to easily get the rear end waggling, and its lack of pull reduces the excitement of driving it at less than 10/10ths. Others have made a similar point, Evo is not unique here.
I was actually playing devil's advocate a bit with that argument, as I was aware of these tests (and in fact have cited the Pobst drives in a few threads here debating BRZ vs GT86 handling) and I do find some of Evo's conclusions to be anomalous data points in the Toyobaru review continuum, which makes them a bit suspect. It could be argued though that both Pobst and Palmer were driving the car on relatively high-speed (for the car) racetracks at 11/10ths, not simply trying to have a bit of fun on public roads, so the applicability of their conclusions to real-world driving may not be as strong as the Evo test's conclusions, given that Evo's testing was conducted on those self-same roads.
Sure you can probably break the rear end out a bit in the twins through most corners by using the "momentum" method of riding the edge of grip through the apex and then stomping on it, but let's face it - for most drivers in most conditions that's a pretty dangerous way to be cornering on public roads. It would be far safer if you could go through the corner at 7/10ths and then get the rear end to slide a bit on exit with a deeper nudge of the gas pedal (maybe leaving your TC in sport mode to protect yourself should you overcook things).
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I've autocrossed my FR-S on stock tires, and you can definitely get that bit of tail wag while in a corner at 7/10ths (or maybe 8/10ths) by burying the throttle at apex in the right gear. Today I actually just came back from autocrossing on a bit stickier summer tires (though not as sticky as SS Z2's or RS3's), and it's still possible to get the tail to wag at 7 or 8/10ths, it's just the limits of the tires are a bit higher so it means 7/10ths is now faster than it used to be. And as you said, at 10/10ths, it's downright easy and controllable.
But putting aside my disagreement with Evo's assessment, perhaps the greater point is, why are the BRZ/GT86 being criticized by Evo for that when neither the Megane nor the mk7 GTI are able to throttle-oversteer at 7/10ths in a corner either? In the twins, punching the throttle at 7-8/10ths will at least get you a bit of tail wag. In the Megane or mk7 GTI or Focus ST (or insert FWD hot hatch here), you would simply induce copious amounts of understeer. Again, seems like a biased perspective by Evo to try to hold that against the twins.
