[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

So this was actually my point when I said it wouldn't be like a BRZ with 100 lbs/ft more torque. I can't tell if that's your BRZ in your picture, but if you're thinking of switching to a GTI and expecting it to basically be like your BRZ with more torque, you'll be sorely disappointed IMO. Two different classes of cars, one being a lightweight RWD sports car and the other being a heavier FWD hot hatch. Ford (and now VW) are clearly striving for their new hot hatches to handle more like lightweight RWD sports cars, but obviously they're fighting the laws of physics.

Not sure why you felt the need to repeat yourself here, as you said I was basically agreeing with you. I'm not a current BRZ owner, I've driven an FRS a few times and it was a great experience, even if the car did feel a tiny bit heavy (it's about 200 lbs heavier than my Tiburon).

Fact is though that most of the Brit reviewers have raved about the Megane's handling, despite it being burdened with all the disadvantages you list and more - wrong wheel drive, height, weight. I'm agnostic on the commonly held supposition that "it [insert RWD sports car here] has to a priori be better because it's...", which is why I am tempted to wait until I can test both the Toyobaru and the GTI MK7 on the same day before dropping my cash down.

Don't you find it odd that Evo trashed the BRZ-auto in their initial review, basically saying they couldn't get the rear end to rotate and come out to play, when in reality, the rear rotates just fine? Every other reviewer has basically stated and demonstrated that, including Harris who btw loves the twins (and I believe is former Evo). Evo later tried to backtrack with a more positive review of a GT86 manual, saying that the manual tranny and the GT86 suspension tuning made an enormous difference, but you can tell they're worried about preserving the credibility of that initial BRZ bashing they did.

I haven't waded into the long history of Evo's relationship to the car so I can't speak to that. But going from this review I would not say they are issuing an unqualified negative on the car. Sure these other reviewers can get the BRZ to slide at 10/10ths on a track or closed road. Evo's point was that on the street the car's relative lack of torque doesn't allow one to easily get the rear end waggling, and its lack of pull reduces the excitement of driving it at less than 10/10ths. Others have made a similar point, Evo is not unique here.

BTW, I don't think there's much credibility to the argument that the staff of Evo are simply better drivers than everyone else. I can guarantee you Randy Pobst (former 4x SCCA World Challenge GT champ) and Jonathan Palmer (F1/LeMans/BTCC driver) have more experience with fast cars than the entire Evo staff combined, and both loved the twins. So the better drivers thing doesn't really explain the Evo bias either.

I was actually playing devil's advocate a bit with that argument, as I was aware of these tests (and in fact have cited the Pobst drives in a few threads here debating BRZ vs GT86 handling) and I do find some of Evo's conclusions to be anomalous data points in the Toyobaru review continuum, which makes them a bit suspect. It could be argued though that both Pobst and Palmer were driving the car on relatively high-speed (for the car) racetracks at 11/10ths, not simply trying to have a bit of fun on public roads, so the applicability of their conclusions to real-world driving may not be as strong as the Evo test's conclusions, given that Evo's testing was conducted on those self-same roads.

Sure you can probably break the rear end out a bit in the twins through most corners by using the "momentum" method of riding the edge of grip through the apex and then stomping on it, but let's face it - for most drivers in most conditions that's a pretty dangerous way to be cornering on public roads. It would be far safer if you could go through the corner at 7/10ths and then get the rear end to slide a bit on exit with a deeper nudge of the gas pedal (maybe leaving your TC in sport mode to protect yourself should you overcook things).