I now see your concern, and I agree, the cars were not making the power they should be, or that the change in HP isn't quite what everyone expected.
I/we fully stand behind the HP claims we make on all our parts. We don't show the highest HP runs, and with the SC kit, I was actually able to make more power, but we didn't show this because its always better to underestimate. Even with that, this is causing some Internet drama still. So the question is why are things off a bit??
Variable #1
The dyno graphs I shows are for stock BRZ (no tune, no mods) vs the Vortech Tuner kit using the stock supplied pulley.
No, your dynos included a Perrin header back exhaust. Here is an excerpt from directly after your first dyno that is posted in your supercharger post.
So was there more power to extract? Yes! Below is an overlay of the old best run with the final tune. As I suspected there was more of low to mid range horsepower to be gained along with more consistent top end power. With some optimization of cam timing, fueling and timing maps, I was able to get a few more HP almost everywhere and smooth out things a bit. This test was done on our BRZ with a PERRIN Headerback, 2.5" system with a cat running on 92octane. This means the stock header with cat was still in place as well as our high flow cat.
This is of course, after the completely ridiculous AVO turbo kit comparison graph. Which, btw is outdated. You might want to update that if you want to keep your information accurate.
So variable one, doesn't matter as at least one of your customers also dynoed with the Perrin exhaust and gained the exact same as another who didn't have one. You still gained 80whp while they gained 50.
The other dynos from Phastek guys all are showing the "base run" but these are all cars with either header back exhaust, or overpipe back exhaust ,or with ECU tuning. Lets say that adds 10-15WHP to the base HP runs that I showed. Now we are much closer to the actual change in HP we showed.
Aye aye aye. I dynoed the EXACT same (175whp) as them with just a headerback exhaust and NO tuning. I doubt my exhaust added 15 whp. 8 I would believe... but 15?
Variable #2
Map switching is something that was setup on these tunes and I made map 3 have the timing that I used on the dyno runs making 240WHP. Maps, 2 and 1, both had less timing. I found out that the dyno runs Phastek did, were done on Map 1 making for less power. I completely forgot to tell them about the map switching after emailing them maps! My bad!
This concerns me. You mentioned the car pulling up to 5 degrees of timing which causes that rollercoaster power line... Yet this was done on a the "conservative" tune? If the ECU is pulling timing to that degree, I can't imagine what a map with more timing would do. Besides the ECU would just pull it anyway. I'm not sure I buy the whole "oops I forgot to tell ALL my customers about the secrets of Map 3." I mean, you're hawking this kit because of the power it makes, yet you don't tell people about the "power" map, until your claims come up in dispute? Hopefully, one of the Phastek guys does a dyno comparison of map 1/3. Not trying to be a dink, but just seems rather off to me.
Variable #3
Since this was really bugging me, I re-looking at the "Knock Free" logs I have from the dyno runs. The boost at 7400 on my car was 7psi on the dot. The logs of one of these cars was seeing 5.9psi. At 5500 RPM I am seeing 4psi and the other car was seeing 3.4psi. That tells me the atmospheric conditions could have been different, or there was a small boost leak. This may not matter much but its another variable to consider.
All 4 customers were seeing less boost? Logs please?
Variable #4
There was no over pipe installed on two of the Phastek cars. The question is how much difference does this make?? If we found 3HP on our car, that also means a bit more power on two of them.
No overpipe? Were they running open exhaust? I'm not sure I understand. So, assuming you mean they already removed the secondary cat of the over pipe and gained the 3whp, that still doesn't add up to the 30whp discrepancy.
Variable #5
No oil coolers on any of these cars. As we have found the oil cooler is worth much more consistent HP and especially on a SC car running more boost and much more stress that doesn't help.
The car I rode in with the SC had consistent oil temps. According to the oil temp thread, none warranted an oil cooler. Besides, I highly doubt these cars were flogged around hard then immediately slapped on a dyno. The oil would have had plenty of time to cool off.
Here are new dyno graphs comparing the same 240WHP run to cars more similar to what most people have.
Vortech Supercharger Kit on a BRZ with PERRIN 2.5" Headerback Exhaust System (w/Oil cooler)
VS.
Stock FR-S with PERRIN ECUTEK Tune (Stock exhaust)
Vortech Supercharger Kit on a BRZ with PERRIN 2.5" Headerback Exhaust System (w/Oil cooler)
VS.
BRZ with PERRIN 2.5" Headerback Exhaust System (No ECU Tune)
Jeff, this isn't the same graph you posted in your build thread. In fact, your second dyno posted in that thread is this....
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/wp...k-1000x625.jpg
Those are the numbers I'm disputing. 80whp =/= 55whp. So the difference between these two is one is stock and the other is "stock" with a perrin tune. Doing the math, it's not actually 80, but 76. Ok, so people with a tune only see 55whp, and people without a tune will see 76whp. I that's a difference of 21whp, yet your base dynos show tunes only making a difference of 13. They are also labelled differently. Did you mix and match graphs from different cars for your comparisons? By your own admission, that's a no no....
I feel much better after all this. I really hate when people don't believe dyno graphs or any kind of data we provide. I also hate when the when people say our dyno lies or we fudge numbers.
The absolute first picture posted in that thread resembling anything like a dyno is your fudged numbers comparing it directly with an AVO. I have stated in the past my distaste for such tactics considering neither your "dyno" or their "dyno" is accurate in the image. I understand you did it "to show the differences in power band", but it's just bad taste and doesn't accurately depict the differences at all. So yes, you do post fudged numbers in certain regards.
I don't want other onlookers to EVER have that impression, which is why I went to these efforts.