[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

And that's a good thing? I was clearly exaggerating a bit, but for me any vehicle with a driving position as high as a WRX's detracts from any "sportscar" experience.
They may have improved a bit but they are still well below Subaru and Toyota in the CR and JDPower longer-term assessments.

As to the interior, sure it's opinion, but there seems to be a consensus across many reviews that it's a long ways from VW GTI quality, and very in-your-face.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

That's being objective ? Sorry, it's called "wishful thinking", pure speculation. Comparing apples to apples is objective, not comparing apples to oranges. Conflating luxury and non-luxury is just silly - they are different classes, one is usually is twice the price of the other. I do give the domestics credit for improving the reliability of their luxury brands, and would not hesitate to pick up an ATS if I was in the market for that type of vehicle.
Nice try at changing the playing field. I never talked about "the Asian and European competition" - only the Japanese (and more specifically the bigger Japanese players in my last post). By that standard you've got three of the biggest above Ford and Chevy, with only one (Nissan, long the scum of Japanese automakers in the reliability department) at the bottom.
This huge drop in one year points to the weak methodology used by JDPower. Drastic shifts like that only happen due to small sample sizes. Scion sales are relatively low, and the Power survey sample size isn't big enough to reliably take that into account. Without seeing the category breakdowns, that's a speculative leap as to the cause of their rating being below industry average; even if true, it was still Ford that OK'ed the systems' release to production.
You're flailing at a dead horse here. I acknowledged earlier that they have improved, but they are still behind the Japanese competition. I notice you just ignored the inconvenient CR data which makes this abundantly clear to anyone without an axe to grind.
Here comes the old anecdotal evidence bias. CR's data may not be perfect, but a sample size of over one million is infinitely better than a sample size of one.
Ad hominem attacks - the last refuge of the desperate. JDPower and CR are the only significant players in long-term reliability surveys, so this is just so much blather.

i dont really care about the points either of you are making but dont you think its a little strange to use jd power to add credibility to your case and then disregard his point because jd powers weak methodology?