[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I see where ScionFRS is coming from and I kind of agree with him only because over the years sports cars started to perform better than there predecessors. The only sports vehicles that have shown little improvements generally comes from Japan. Dave your 97 type R is quicker in stock form than a 2011 civic Si. That's 14 years for fucks sake!!! Compare the handling and performance of lets say a Mustang GT from 97 to now. It's a huge difference. My only gripe that I have is that I wish the FT came with .5 more liters since it seems like 2 liters is played out. It was good in the 90's but this is 2011. Progress!!!

The ITR was/is a special car though. Even if the 11 Si was faster I'd still take the ITR :P We had Honda's head of PR (who also owned an ITR) out to speak at ITR Expo 2010 and he made it quite clear that a car like the ITR will never happen again, at least not in the near future due to CAFE, safety, etc requirements. It's a valid point. It's literally hard to make a car that's lightweight these days. By light I mean 25XXlbs like the ITR. The average buyer demands all sorts of luxuries and features that all add weight while requiring high fuel efficiency, quality materials and low prices.

Personally I see this car as a RWD ITR, and I'll be very excited if it meets that expectation. Similar power, similar weight, but RWD. I'd love for it to just do that.

I agree with your points, just not his arguement for reasons below.

He wants that 300HP for 20K though, in 1997 dollars that's what, 16-17k? What quick cars sold for that in 1997 (the ITR by comparison was 23k without AC, about 25k with it)? I just think his desires are unrealistic, yet he says that everyone else is giving us 300hp for 20k (that's the implication since he's using Toyota's 20k car as a basis of the comparison) and that's simply not true, with the exception of american muscle. What's the cheapest Japanese sports import with 300hp? Mazda has the MS3 that's 263 IIRC, for 24k base or so. Honda has.. nothing. Toyota has.. nothing. Mitsu has the EVO for 30+, Subaru has the STI for 30+.

So basically, he's smoking crack if he thinks everyone is giving us 300hp sporty cars for 20k :P

I agree that American cars have made marked improvements, but let's face it, American cars from the 90s HAD to make marked improvements. They sucked badly. Ford realized it and made smart choices and are making some good cars now, even if they are still dumbed down in the feedback department.

Lucky this isn't a domestic board or we'd be banned for this