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toyota did build a sports car on their own. i named about a dozen of them. you keep contradicting yourself. toyota has unlimited resources but somehow they can build a sports car?
nobody cares what cars you have had. paris hilton has an lfa, that doesnt make her a voice of authority.
none of the "facts" that you state have anything to do with what you are trying to say. how do saab and tesla fit into this? here are some facts:
lexus won the 24hr at daytona in 2006-2008 (three consecutive years sounds like a commitment to me) and a couple years ago they won both the 300 and 500 jgtc classes. is six years ago too long ago for you? please tell me all about what subaru has done since then, or ever in fact.
toyota has more wrc wins than subaru. i would love for you to tell me just one competition where subaru is more successful than toyota.
at only 200 lbs heavier than the sti, the supra would pull .98g on the skidpad and thats with 15 year old tire technology. how well does the sti grip?
lets talk more about how toyota outsources everything and learns nothing because being the only car manufacturer with a crazy circular carbon fiber loom isnt going to change car culture in the least.
if toyota has never made a "true" sports car, neither has subaru.
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Name me one Toyota car that is remembered or listed by auto writers, classic car magazines, as being a memorable "sports car". Don't list off thier failures and classify them as meaningful cars to the sports car history.
I don't care one bit what you think about my history of rebuilding, racing and winning trophies with sports cars that are remembered and gaining in value as they grow older. I only went there because you or some other Toyota excuse maker decide I was just a fanboy and questioned my knowledge and experience with automobiles. It was that person who seemed to think it was important to have some credentials so I listed them It was not bragging, it was out of defense of being told that I must not know much. If you missed that, then you should read every post and give smart responses instead of giving me crap. You are the one making personal remarks.
I never said anything about Subaru being great, I only said that this car was great and that Subaru had more to do with it being great than Toyota, and that they had more purity of concept when they went to make a vehicle than Toyota does. And yes I do believe that one of the largest and richest auto companies in the world should be able to make this care if they felt they could do it right. But they asked Subaru to do it. (One of he smallest independent mass producer of cars in the world could not sell enough units to justify development costs of a complete platform not usable for other models, so yes they needed Toyota. To make the car viable in sales numbers to be profitable and sustainable) If a wealthy car company wanted to build a game changing "affordable" sports cars, why would they ask someone else to do the design work of the platform, and use their engine design, providing little else. So just tell me what is made by Toyota in this car besides the ECU managment with direct injection system? Not much. What input did they have in the platform layout and engineering? Not much according to the chariman of Toyota which again is in public print from back in April of 2012. Facts are facts. people can ignore them quite easily if they don't want to believe them, but don't condemn me for reminding people of those facts.
You see different reasons than I do. Fine, I don't really care if you agree with me. But it turned into a bunch of bull from people who either choose to ignore things as they were written, or to put words in my posts that were never there. Believe what you like, but to say that Toyota dragged Subaru into making a car for them says many things that conflicts with your base argument. All of which some here choose to ignore.
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Originally Posted by Justin.b
Who here has seen a GT2000 in person?
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My point exactly. If Toyota had of mass produced the GT2000, then my earlier post would have been wrong. But they did not. There were very, very few of them built, never sold in production numbers.
In General as to the what constitutes a sports car, I tried to be clear but obviously was not. My reference would be a Lotus Elan, or a Datusn 240Z, or a Mazda Miata (and others) when I said a "true" sports car. A car that is very light, well balanced and has great road holding capability making it a fun car to drive around a road coarse or to autocross, and be truly competitive yet is affordable to most buyers. There are lots of great sporting cars, GT's, Touring and exotic cars made by mass producers, but not many of them fit this category. I think this car is in that class. Name me a Toyota that has dominated it's SCCA class, or it's autocrossing class in decades. There are none. But a little company that you want to disparage has done that. If a sports car can not do that then it has been compromised in design for sales/marketing or the power of bean counters. That seems to be the story of Toyota and sports/sporty cars that they mass produce. Sorry if you do not like my opinion, but at least it has a good amount of facts behind it, not blind allegiance to any one company.