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Originally Posted by go2brz
Bull.... If so then why did Toyota not just do this themselves. They have as many resources as any car company in the WORLD. Yet they dragged Subaru into making the car for them?...LMAO! The fact is that Toyota needed Subaru because every effort that Toyota has made in the last two decades to build a real sports car has failed, and failed at the true design of the car. They can sell any shit they put their mind to, but they have not been able to make a true sports car at any price. (The LFA is an overpriced joke). This is not meant to belittle Toyota, It is a company highly capable of making a finely engineered car, that is well built, reliable and usually boring. I used to laugh at the people who tried to autocross the last Celica, not at them, but the car. The MR2 was lowered to the least common demoninator because Toyota wanted to sell cars more than they wanted to get it right. Funny thing. They still did not sell that many.
You have the right to call this car a Toyota is you want. But that does not mean you have facts, reason or history behind you. Subaru produces cars based on purity of purpose and sells to a niche market yet keeps on chugging along with bigger sales increase each year. Toyota builds cars based on mass sales numbers as they try once again to become the manufacturer of most cars in the world each year. Personally, I will take Subaru every time.
The FRS is a re-badged Subaru and besides the styling and engine management technology their input was minimal. As I said (and it is in public print), the Chairman of Toyota said that he and NO FAITH that Toyota could produce such a car based on their culture and past history. Hell they even failed miserably at Formula One. At least Subaru was a real force in the World Rally Championship for over a decade and they make Toyota look like a non-particpant in SCCA events, both on track or autocrossing. Look it up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go2brz
Now, Datsun was a company that was interested in racing! They did what Toyota could never manage (or get approved by the board), as they built some real sports cars for the masses. Even their old 510 sedan was an SCCA winner. As Nissan they have not done as well, but the underpowered 240SX was still a better pure handling car than Toyota have ever built in mass production. (At least in America). And then you have the GTR? So I can only ask?, What (besides autoguide) makes you think that Toyota had the ability to make this car on thier own? Yet (you and your questionable source of autoguide (the mecca of sports car evaluation) ) believe that Toyota had to "drag" Subaru into making a car that Toyota had no ability to make on thier own (or they would have). The truth is that Toyota asked Subaru to come up with such a design. They came up with one early and Toyota was clamoring for them to make it. Subaru said No. It was not good enough for them. So they went to a true Skunk Works car that was shrouded in secrecy throughout the design process, and when they produced the the prototype design, before Toyota knew many details, and presented it to them, Toyota "begged" Subaru to build this car. At that point Subaru said yes, let's do it, because it was an uncompromised desgin of a real affordable sports car that they believed was good enough for them. Yes, they needed Toyota to want the car because the only affordable way to build it was to do it in economies of scale that could make the list price acceptable and give the car the ability to sell in the numbers needed to keep it in production longer than two-three years. (IE: 100,000 plus units worldwide). But Toyota was "dependendent" on Subaru, not vice versa. Anyone who believes otherwise is a Toyota zombie......
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you are a contradicting, misinformed fanboy. in the same post you manage to criticize toyota for not selling many mr2s and then immediately praise subaru for having a niche market? this is subarus first sports car, dont fool yourself. you would be naive to think that toyotas downfall in f1 is a shame compared to the relatively small success of subaru in wrc and do i have to mention that toyota was a "force" in wrc too? in fact, they have more champoinships than subaru. toyota is one of only a handful of companies to actually make their own f1 cars. they have made more sports cars than subaru and nissan combined. calling a stock 240sx a pure handling car is a total joke and to say its better than anything toyota has ever built is ignorant. toyota owns a huge chunk of subaru and having two parts bins to pull from to keep costs down was a win win. its as simple as that.
i cant help but feel like you have never driven, let alone heard of the: supra, celica, mr2, gt2000, sports800, altezza, isf, corolla, chaser, soarer, starlet or any of the other stuff they are doing or have done. or any of thier successes in races like the rolex sports car series, f1 wrc, basically every endurance race, grand prix, jgtc etc.
dont get me wrong, i like what subaru has done as far as the philosophy of the company but compared to toyota there is no history to look back on.