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Originally Posted by Driftster
How many shows has this car made it to? How many shows has toyota or subaru had a booth with the engine or the chassis...How many full stage releases has this car had in tuner version stock version prototype version etc etc etc... How many columns in magazines has it already gotten POSITIVE reviews for.... Every single magazine that is praising the car without any evidence what so ever is getting coin from toyota. This car has been "on the road" for years now.. Hell toyota had Polyphony digital do a nice ad campaign for their car via Gran Turismo back in 2009...
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So these car shows were only for Toyota to show off the FT86? I wasn't aware of that? And Toyota is paying for magazine articles too? Wow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftster
OH Em Gee You don't say overlap is handled by cams....But guess what? a High flowing head is going to be harder to source considering it has to be outsourced...When you turbocharge an engine you don't have to worry about the flawlessness of the head ports and ability to move CFM under it's own power, that's the entire point of a turbocharger, this is why 2 valve engines can respond so well to turbo chargers because even though the single large valve doesn't allow as much air into the cylinder as 2 smaller valves with more surface area...the pressure the turbo builds compensates for it......That's why the N/A oriented high flow head is completely unnecessary in a turbo application especially in a stock application where adding the machined head would only result in higher cost for the car to be produced..
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Efficiency is efficiency. A higher flowing head on a turbo car will benefit it. As will the cams in the top end at a bit of lag expense, proven countless times on Supra turbos that have NA cams swapped.
Also 'machined' head? Outsourced? FE vs GE in the 4A and 3S. Yamaha made recommendations on specs, port shape and what-not, but they wer made in the same facilities, just with different casting plugs and cores. No more machined that the ordinary ones. It's not like the performance version is CNC ported in a special factory or anything...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftster
Also the GE and GTE heads are different...
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Just checking on your knowledge base, as you were suggesting that the head itself (and not the cams in it) was responsible for overlap. 2JZGE use round exhaust ports and GTEs use oval.
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Originally Posted by Driftster
How is porsche a bad example, i'm assuming you aren't aware of the changes that took place in the model lineup..
Considering porsche is working with a new base engine, an entire new valve train...The axle's are being relocated, the greenhouse is growing and they're using different materials for the composition...
In the world of the 911, making the car more MR like less RR like is revolutionary..Not Evolutionary..
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Porsche designs and plans their models far into the future, and have been working on the 911 family for half a century. The FT86 has nothing current to get data off of.
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Originally Posted by Driftster
EVENTUALLY yes, eventually it will be spread out...As it stands now..There is a SINGLE car covering that order...
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In the development of the motor and future models they planned for this. This is how costing of products works, basing it on expected future sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftster
Except the MSRP of the S2000 wasn't much lower than dealer markups there man.. the S2000 MSRP'd for almost 40 grand, with shopping around it could be found for that...But most people didn't shop around..
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Not clear on what I meant. Honda itself priced it to be their halo model, but didn't really have to. However their were some extra limitations on the potential sales volume of the S2000 do maybe they did. Convertible-only, 2-seater, and manual-only would cut into sales numbers even if it were cheaper, so they did need an extra bit of profit factored into the price. FT86 doesn't have these handicaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftster
Ok so now you're going on the limb as to say the "stripper" model FT86 is going to be as great as it needs to be, there is no need for any OEM performance parts what so ever because this car is as good as it gets..However elsewhere in reality...Every single other car has a "step up" that is deemed "necessary"....I like how that works.
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Um, what? Of course I expect it to be good. But I'm not expecting to go Cayman or 370Z hunting at the track, right off the lot. It will handle well, have decent acceleration and decent economy, it will be fine until the warranty ends. Then we will see. If you are expecting the factory or dealer to be the one that has to 'upgrade' your car for you, enjoy overpaying for your performance. If you 'need' your FT86 to out-drag bolt-on Genesis Coupes, you're probably SOL. Plus Scion doesn't seem to do the 'step up' thing. Just the silly cosmetic Release thing.
Exception to the above for me is price. If Toyota over-prices this car, I will be going for an MR-S with a hard top and 2ZZGE/6spd swap.
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Originally Posted by Driftster
2500#'s and 170hp/140tq is a gift from god?
Man i had no idea you guys loved the Celica GT-S that much..because that's exactly where it sits, and that vehicle was abysmal..
You seem to be missing the focus of the Genesis 2.0T...As mentioned it's designed to be a platform to tune on, it's dirt cheap and you get a proven strong powerplant and a turbocharged engine in a RWD car...It was created with room to grow, meanwhile you don't see many 2.5RS's out there N/A ready to kick ass and take names..
And you're STILL assuming it's going to weight 2500lbs..
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Just wait and see. If this thing is cheap and light enough, and EJ motors can swap in with the same degree of difficulty as a K-series into the older Civics, there will be some ridiculous performance numbers coming out of the FT86 that the Genesis will likely not be able to match for a long time.
This is why you guys are still here, right? Despite us silly fanbois, your general distaste for the thinking behind this car, and your love for easy power upgrades, your still unsure of what to expect from the final FT86. There is still the potential that this car hits 2600lbs and you could bolt in an EJ257 like Lego that can easily be tuned to 300whp. Or a Scion company like PTuning makes a bolt on turbo kit for $5k for 250whp. Or countless other scenarios that annihilate stock Zs and upgraded GCs.
Sounds like what you guys want is that this car is a Miata-type car that can't be upgraded, so you can laugh at us delusional fanbois, blissfully ignorant to your horsepower in our corners, as you blast by on the straights in your more powerful cars. But that only works if the FT86 isn't easily upgradeable. Don't count on it.