[ToyotaObsession]

Originally Posted by madfast

you're crazy dude...

i bet there are like 100x more people that haul their families to the store in a SUV than haul whatever in a pickup bed...

if this segment was so popular, every manufacturer would throw their hat in the ring to get a piece. yet there are so few choices out there. but SUV/crossovers? there are so many you couldnt count them all...

LOL you bet that huh? Well seeing as how I buy groceries once a week you might be right, but that doesn't really prove much. It's like saying "I'll bet 100 times more people commute in a Camry than pick up groceries in it." You can pick any thing people do more often and you'll be right. But that doesn't prove anything.

Originally Posted by madfast

this is a great point. if you argue that pickups can be daily driven, then why doesnt europe have as many as we do? maybe pickups, like cowboys, are an american culture thing... so that doesnt say much about the vehicle, as much as it says about the people...

LOL why does Europe have way more Diesels than we do? Why do they speak more languages than we do?

They have more Trucks in Africa than Cars. Maybe they are all Cowboys down there too?

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Europe has rural areas as well. They have farms and ranches. It isn't just cities.

Btw I never said a truck isn't useful in a rural environment for a farmer or rancher. It is. I don't think madfast would disagree with that either.

Uh huh, and why isn't a Truck useful in a Suburban or Urban environment? Because everything can fit into a Small SUV? Yeah that's sound logic.

Originally Posted by madfast

no. you have to think from a manufacturer's standpoint. is there a large enough market for a compact pickup? what are the sales numbers? what are the surveys and focus groups saying? what are the customers telling our dealers?

do you honestly think there are enough people out there that walk into a toyota dealership and say, gosh i wish this tacoma was smaller?

Everyone I know that's looked at a Tundra has wished it came with a Diesel yet we still don't have one.

We don't always get what we wish for.

Originally Posted by Dimman

No. You've just demonstrated how little you understand the situation. The trucks are used for all of those things as well. And it's not this huge hassle you seem to think it is. Plus a lot of the hobbies and recreational things these guys for fun also involve needing a truck.

If you were to visit any part of British Columbia (province I live in) north of Vancouver, you will see that about 50% of the vehicles on the road are pickup trucks. And they are the do-everything vehicle for the people that own them.

Exactly. This idea that anything other than EXACTLY what you need and nothing more is overkill is so funny! By that logic the FT-86 is overkill. There's no reason to go more than 60 MPH and unless you're gonna fill up those back seats 3 times a week better get a car without them! Overkill!

Originally Posted by tranzformer

No I understand. You guys need the trucks out in the sticks. We are saying urban folks don't need a truck for the one time a year they "might" move a sofa. They are better off with a compact SUV or crossover. Not sure why you keep bringing up rural drivers when they make up the smallest percentage of the market.

ROFL!! This is one of the stupidest things I've had the chance to read

I'm not out in the Sticks and I use my truck on occasion for Hauling junk, ferrying the Dogs around, and even getting Groceries!

I haven't even moved a sofa with it! I feel so left out. Who needs a sofa moved? Maybe I can take mine around the block. You know REALLY get all the usefulness out of my truck you think I have to have.

Oh, so please, tell me what else would I better off owning? Do I need this big TV? New Laptop? The idea that you know exactly what everyone needs based on nothing more than your opinion is so laughably stupid I can't believe you actually said it. Seriously what makes you think that everyone in the world would be better off owning a Small SUV? What if a family has 13 members? Should they buy 2? You know because you said that's better for them than say a Fullsize Van.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Anyone local to Vancouver have a truck, SUV, CUV or wagon I can borrow so I can pick up that WRX short block I mentioned?

Come down to Everett and borrow mine

Originally Posted by madfast

yes, but just because you can doesnt mean you necessarily will. and even if you do, how often? and is that representative of the general populace?

hence all the idiots who buy trucks, only to use the pickup bed once a year...

it can look sporty. but that doesnt mean it has to do 0-60 in 4 secs and pull 0.99 g...

my argument, that has never changed, is that scion would be better off making a suv/crossover rather than a compact pickup. they make a lot of hatchbacks now, but they dont offer AWD. what's the argument for a compact suv/crossover? simple. its the same core reasons why people buy them to begin with: cargo space, ride height, fuel economy, ride/comfort, etc. its self explanatory.

what isnt self explanatory is why the average family would buy a pickup. all the reasons you state that someone might buy a pickup, turn out to be some out of the ordinary task they do a few times a year. fixing up your home, talking a bag of leaves god knows where, moving couches for a friend, etc, etc. etc.... all of the above is not normal day to day living for most people.

a truck CAN get groceries, BUT WHO WOULD WANT TO???? its one thing to say i have a truck, so i get my groceries in the truck. you have the truck, of course you're gonna use it. but its a whole other story to say i get a lot of groceries, therefore i must buy a pickup... NOBODY says that! but buy a SUV over a car? SURE!!!!!!! tons of people buy suvs EXACTLY for that reason. they need cargo space, but arent going to go to the extreme and get a pickup so you can carry whatever you like whenever you happen to need it....

ROFL this cracked me up the most!

So try to stay with me while I take this bit by bit. Do you know anyone who owns a WRX(I know it's overkill to own a WRX but what are you gonna do?)? Have they ever rally raced it? I mean it's made to Rally, so it can but does that mean they ever will? Will they ever even take it over 80MPH? If they do how often? Does that represent the average WRX owners?

I guess everyone who buys a WRX, Lancer, or anything else that's designed to race and doesn't is an idiot huh?

You see where I'm going with this logic? Ferrari's can go 200 MPH, will most of them ever see that speed? Probably not. That doesn't affect the person's decision to get one. There can be lots of other reasons to get one. Sometimes just knowing you can do something is enough.

That's not Sporty, that is sports car territory. But in order to look sporty it has to back it up at least a little bit. Get a Sporty SUV that takes 13 seconds to go 0-60MPH people are gonna be pissed lol.

So why would someone make the upgrade and spend the extra money to get the SUV if that's all their interested in. They could get that by spending less money on just a Regular 'ole Scion. A compact Truck would offer something they can't already get. A bed!

So what if it's not day to day living? That makes zero sense.

By your logic, you won't be using every inch of space in an SUV everyday either, so you don't need it. I mean that actually makes less sense than saying an SUV is better at being Safe LOL.

So again it comes back to the fact that day to day, driving a Truck as DD is exactly the same as an SUV. You get in alone and drive back and forth to work, run some errands occasionally and that's it. Less than 10% of the time it's going to matter if you have an SUV or a Truck. So your logic is flawed because it can be applied to SUV's just the same.

Now you're just being silly. Nobody buys an SUV so they can buy tons of Groceries. Yes they buy it for the Cargo space. People buy a Truck for the bed. There's literally no difference in the logic there. Each has an advantage that will be useful to some, others not.

Buying a Compact Truck is no more extreme than buying a Small SUV. For basically the same reasons. Buying a Ferrari so you can go to the Grocery and make it back home in Record time would be extreme LOL.

So honestly you aren't making a good argument here. If you like SUV's that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But taking something you like, and trying to prove that it's better than everything else no matter what is going to end up making you look like a fool. It's just not going to work. Your logic can be circled back on you. All this talk about overkill, and only using it sometimes apply to 99% of Cars/Trucks/SUV's.

So all you've done is actually prove that Scion selling an SUV would be pointless because they already have Small Cars that fill that niche. They don't have a Truck though.

So thank you for that .