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Originally Posted by Kire
the frs is not anymore "back to basics" than the brz. both are essentially the same car. yeah, so the brz has a few more features, but so what? there are stuff in the frs that don't add to the driving experience. for example, it's got AC, cruise control, power steering, power windows and door locks, traction/stability control, useless backseats, etc. all these stuff not only do not add to the driving experience, but they also add weight. the bottom line is that the frs/brz are road cars with amenities that does not serve solely the purpose of enhancing the driving experience. it's designed not only to provide you with pleasure behind the wheels, but also to get you from point A to point B in relative comfort in a package that's relatively convenient and practical for day to day automotive needs. the whole "back to basics" and "pure driver's car" labels are nothing but marketing. the frs/brz is not a lotus elise/exige. it's a compromised car. imo, the frs lack features not because scion is trying to make the car more of a driver's car. instead, its goal is to try to keep the price tag under $25K because that is what the demographic scion is trying to attract is willing or able to pay. choosing between the frs and brz is pretty much akin to choosing between a civic DX and EX--one has slightly more features, but they are both essentially civics and at the end of the day, it all boils down to "are you willing to pay X dollars more for X amount more features?"
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Well said... It really just comes down to what features you want, what you're willing to spend, and which car you think looks better. I ordered a BRZ not only because I'm getting a deal on it, but I think the front bumper is way better, headlights look way better, interior looks much nicer, it has HIDs, and I think the resale value will be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dem00n
I find it odd how some say the Automatic gearbox offers less than the MT, in a sense it offers a lot more. First you have automatic mode and its settings, traction on/off and sport. Then you have two ways to change gears, using the paddles or pushing the shifter up and down. Then you have use of using sport and traction on/off. I find driving in sport with pure automatic to be quite different then driving in automatic with sport off, same as i do finding using the paddles with sport on and sport off. I think i got the bargain for getting such a nice automatic trans for under 30k. If you ask me, i'm having more fun playing around with this niffy transmission then i did in my old 5 speed and dare i say more in the manual 6 speed.
Oh and you wanna discuss the performance between manual and automatic? Barley matters in this car, its 200 HP and none of us are going to be really time racing against each other. The small difference on the track between an FRS automatic and FRS manual would only truly matter with whos driving it if you ask me.
The 2nd best part is that after driving around with this transmission for over 3 months; i'm still learning more about it every week. Its really something to behold, if you get the MT or the AT on either the FRS/BRZ then you simply have made a great choice. There is no wrong with either cars or either ways of transmission. Its maaaaaad!
Ha...i'm done for the day.
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To be honest, hearing things like this makes me wonder why the car even came in automatic... You're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's completely flawed. You have fun with your automatic, but that's not what a driver's car is about. A driver's car is about you the driver being totally connected to the car at all times, feeling the car, and controlling every aspect of the car. While you can shift with the auto, you must admit that it's not the same as a manual. No clutch, no shift feeling, not the same feeling behind the wheel. This is why most of the true driver's cars are availiable in manual transmission only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dem00n
Then why am i having more fun? What full potential is there for a car like this? Your talking mere milliseconds. This is a simple machine made to do well on corners and holding drifts, not go on into corners breaking from 200MPH like a race car. I think you guys are simply over looking the whole driving experience. Its not simply how many techniques you use to achieve your shifts but more so on it all feels and connects, which this car has on either transmissions. We cannot simply base the whole driving experience on engaging and disengaging a clutch, that like saying sex was no fun because you didn't do oral.
"extract the full potential of a true "driver's car"" I'm sorry but am i the only one here seeing that as pure bullshit?
What full potential? What drivers car? What makes this a drivers car? I could call a Honda Accord a drivers car if i bought it in MT, thats what your turning it off as.
What about all the cars without a clutch, all those modern automated transmission, are they not driver cars?
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It's made for holding drifts, but you can't really drift with an automatic. Sure you can kick the back end out, but holding drifts and connecting turns will not really work with an automatic. Maybe if you're messing around in the snow or something, but going to a track and trying to link a course without being able to clutch kick or proper e-brake? Good luck.
What it seems to come down to is that this is an enthusiast's car, and you don't seem to be much of an enthusiast. You may like cars and have fun driving yours, but any real enthusiast, anyone with a love for driving/learning lines/learning techniques/improving driver skill/mastering car control would never defend an automatic transmission on anything but a comfy land yacht. Automatic transmissions have their purpose in daily commuters. If your FRS is just a daily commuter for you, then by all means get it in automatic, but if you like hitting the track, twisty roads, drifting, whatever, you'd be foolish to not get the manual, and even more foolish to defend it.
As for the modern sportscars with automatic transmissions, drivers would argue that this is the downfall of the driver's car. Too many cars these days are being dumbed down by computer assists and automatic transmissions in an attempt to make them more easily accessible to the average person, and more controllable on the street. But this is not what us drivers want. We want to tame the car and control every aspect of the car, and that was the point of this car... To bring an affordable RWD car back to fill the void in the market that emphasizes driver control and feel.