[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by vtmike

Honestly there isn't much value to be added with the way this thread has turned. The poll is useful to get a real world idea of manual transmission compared to automatic transmission purchase rates.

My main point was from a performance stand point this automatic brings nothing to the table like some claim. It is not a rapid shifting pdk or dsg as some have compared it to. The gearing is not nearly as aggressive as the manual which has a significant impact on track times and worsens the lack luster acceleration of this car. It weights more, and it has significantly more drive train loss (10+ whp loss compared to the manual transmission. )

as stated in a previous post,the 'driveline" "slop" in an auto cannot be engineered out,however,with that said,it is certainly "no" secret that autos have improved tremendously from even 10 years ago.your manual in THIS car still returns over 30 (m.p.g.),and because it is 'direct drive" gives the operator the purist driving experience,with "total" control,as opposed to a computer driving the car! in MY view,this "fact" makes a world of difference to me!

If these things don't matter to you and you prefer better gas mileage and easier bumper to bumper driving, then by all means go with the automatic (there are plenty available at the moment.)

this is very true! autos are all over the net! why? personal preference? perhaps,however,i believe most people want this car with a manual in it,because they want a total driving experience! my 2 cents!

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Originally Posted by vtmike

Agreed. Apparently a rare talent.

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Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich

I'm right there with you on the clutch. I am sure I'd adapt to it before long, but I really really would like at least some feedback from it.

I agree the shifter feel was awesome, better than my civic but a little more difficult to finesse given the high position (relative to the driver)

The pedal placement I found difficult to have too much of an opinion on simply because I have so much difficulty with heel toe to begin with. I've operated some reasonably complex machines with high learning curves and usually relish the challenge and the satisfaction of 'getting it right' but for several reasons, most of which I outlined in my lengthy post, I find trying to heel toe incredibly frustrating. I understand the concept, but the execution I have trouble with. I don't have an issue with driving in general, as I was competitive even in my rookie season of autocrossing, but this one aspect gives me issues.

I really envy anyone who can not only hold maximum braking pressure, but also accurately modulate it while precisely blipping the throttle to rev match. Not being able to do this, as I am sure you can imagine really impacts not just lap times on a road course, but even spirited legal driving. It does bother me, which is why being able to utilize maximum braking force, even with all tires sliding, and still being able to precisely downshift makes the auto rather tempting.

While I am sure several people on the forum understand this plight, I really do wonder how many people, even die hard MT fans, are oblivious to heel toe or just don't do it. Even amongst many car friends and acquaintances, I've only met a couple who will demonstrate competence with heel toe when prompted to.

to me "heel and toe" competence is not a crucial factor i can understand the benefit of it,however you can still enjoy the car without knowing how to do that! take "rev matching" this "was" a procedure that was necessary "years ago" when trucks were equipped with "conical" manual gear boxes.you needed to "match" revs of the engine to the approximate revs"of the gear box in order to shift 'without crashing the gear box. "fuller road ranger" transmissions come to mind as the type of tranny this procedure was applicable to.with modern "helical" gear boxes,"rev matching " was no longer needed as the gears were 'cut" differently and "meshed" without rev matching either engine or transmission.also with the introduction of synchronizers rev matching has been relegated to oblivion. my "alleged" problem after driving manual for over 45 years is that i always 'double clutch" which is a driving tecnique i learned many years ago using 'conical" gear boxes in older tractors.can't seem to eliminate it,however,i still have faith that the build quality of the clutch will withstand my double clutching,and last for a very long time! the japanese have proven once again in the design ,and development of THIS car,that they are indeed master car builders.

Originally Posted by jmaryt

i am sorry you feel that way! just stating my opinion in a "'somewhat"
dramatic way! to each their own! i feel certain in the "long" road ahead
that THIs car, being a "collaboration" of engineering,and "build quality"
from two "crackerjack" japanese car builders,one can be assured they have a
quality vehicle,when given proper maintenance will last a very long time.regardless of the chosen transmission!