[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Mr 286

None of those testimonials are empirical data supporting your conjecture that there is an issue with the car's handling dynamics. Fail.

Those are all opinions of driving preference, and those people prefer the balance of the BRZ. That's all.

I almost gave up even discussing this with you when you mentioned the trunk as an issue with snap-oversteer... I'm thinking that getting as close to the 2100 lb curb weight as possible was the major design decision there.

Also, I'm surprised that you being an MR2 owner are not aware that the '91 model year also has a staggered wheel/tire setup. The change was an increase in wheel diameter, and tire width; something that will generally increase the limit on any car. The other notable change was moving the tie rod ends on the rear sub-assembly further outboard to control the toe-in (which resulted in shorter links).

Some other minor changes were that they also thickened the sway-bar links for more stiffness, and rotated the direction that the front and rear sub-assembly bolts to the tension rods by 90 degrees.

I have built and driven many MR2s over the years. The only snap-oversteer issue is inexperienced drivers lifting mid-corner when they bite off more than they should have. I preferred the point-and-shoot handling of the 1991 model. Yes, the 1993+ was more stable. It was generally a good revision to make for the public, but hardly an issue for a good driver. Toyota's UK website says the reason they made the modifications was to accommodate drivers who's reflexes were "not that of formula one drivers." -- Now whether that's the honest to goodness policy; I don't know, but I'm sure that statement reflects the general reception the company had regarding the reports of the car being prone to snap-oversteer.

Excuse me, I shouldn't have worded it as "empirical data". The fact (or overall opinion, whatever) is the FR-S doesn't have the same sweet spot of transition from understeer to oversteer that the BRZ does. I could see that being a problem with many inexperienced drivers, understeer one moment and oversteer the immediate next.

With regards to the Spyder's lack of trunk, I couldn't find any official statement as to that being the case, but take 2 seconds to think about it. Someone loads up their trunk with crap, raising the polar moment of inertia and pushing the weight distribution further back, takes a corner too aggressively and the ass end comes out before they can blink. I spoke to many people about this and this is the conclusion that we came to; it pissed off a lot of prospective buyers that there was no cargo space! I don't think it had much to do with hitting a target weight.

I wasn't aware the 91-92's had a staggered setup; I was under the impression they were 14x7's and 205's all around. I guess I was wrong. I had a '94 Turbo with the revised suspension and wheel/tire combo, and even with grippier tires, thicker sways and stiffer suspension, I was able to get it squirrely at the auto-x course.

Time will tell whether Toyota/Scion racks up enough complaints to warrant a change, or whether they will leave it as is... I hope they leave it, but we all know Toyota's reputation for building "safe" (read: sedate) cars.